Hello everyone,
I have already taken over the construction cost thread quite a bit with this potential project. I'll show you a few things and hope for your input because we are still unsure whether we want to buy the property or not.
About the property: The house comes with a 2500 m² (27,000 sq ft) plot made up of 3 parcels. It is located in an area with poor infrastructure (but that’s where my family lives, and I grew up there, so we want to move there) in Rheinland-Pfalz. Boris says building plots in the area go for around 50€ per m² (approx. $5 per sq ft). The land consists of 3 parcels and is partly in a residential zone and partly adjoining garden land. There are also many older fruit trees on the garden areas, which we like.
The house on the plot was built in 1928, with an extension from the 1960s. The total living area was given by our realtor as 207 m² (2,230 sq ft), although I don’t fully trust the calculation. The expert who showed us around said that the attic should not be counted because the ceiling height is below 2.30 m (7.5 ft). The house has a basement.
What we like about the property is the large living area, the possibility to renovate the floor plan to a relatively modern standard (ground floor), the huge plot with good distance from neighbors, and the existing old trees. What we don’t like is the current layout on the upper floor (little hallway, extension only accessible through room 7).
What we want to change (structurally possible according to the initial impression of our expert):
- Ground floor: Dining area will become the kitchen, the door between dining (which will be kitchen) and living room should be widened, possibly with a sliding door, the old kitchen will become a pantry.
- Bathroom on the upper floor, either room 5 or 7 would be suitable.
- Door breakthrough in the hallway upstairs next to the stairs leading to the extension.
- Old bathroom in the basement: This will be my husband’s home gym. The bathroom will be removed completely except for the shower so that one can shower downstairs after working out (or after coming in dirty from the garden).
We would probably use the attic for “less frequently used” rooms because of the low ceiling height. Maybe for storage and a nice guest room.
On the upper floor, there should be space for a bathroom, bedroom, two children’s rooms, and a utility room for washing and drying.
On the ground floor, living, dining, kitchen + pantry, office, and possibly a shower-gym area should fit.
Heating should go in the basement (energy consultant recommends pellet heating). I’m not sure how good that is; we currently have the THZ504 air-to-water heat pump with ventilation and really like it. I would like to have the same again but don’t know if it is suitable to heat a house that probably won’t get better than KfW 85 standard.
I have already taken over the construction cost thread quite a bit with this potential project. I'll show you a few things and hope for your input because we are still unsure whether we want to buy the property or not.
About the property: The house comes with a 2500 m² (27,000 sq ft) plot made up of 3 parcels. It is located in an area with poor infrastructure (but that’s where my family lives, and I grew up there, so we want to move there) in Rheinland-Pfalz. Boris says building plots in the area go for around 50€ per m² (approx. $5 per sq ft). The land consists of 3 parcels and is partly in a residential zone and partly adjoining garden land. There are also many older fruit trees on the garden areas, which we like.
The house on the plot was built in 1928, with an extension from the 1960s. The total living area was given by our realtor as 207 m² (2,230 sq ft), although I don’t fully trust the calculation. The expert who showed us around said that the attic should not be counted because the ceiling height is below 2.30 m (7.5 ft). The house has a basement.
What we like about the property is the large living area, the possibility to renovate the floor plan to a relatively modern standard (ground floor), the huge plot with good distance from neighbors, and the existing old trees. What we don’t like is the current layout on the upper floor (little hallway, extension only accessible through room 7).
What we want to change (structurally possible according to the initial impression of our expert):
- Ground floor: Dining area will become the kitchen, the door between dining (which will be kitchen) and living room should be widened, possibly with a sliding door, the old kitchen will become a pantry.
- Bathroom on the upper floor, either room 5 or 7 would be suitable.
- Door breakthrough in the hallway upstairs next to the stairs leading to the extension.
- Old bathroom in the basement: This will be my husband’s home gym. The bathroom will be removed completely except for the shower so that one can shower downstairs after working out (or after coming in dirty from the garden).
We would probably use the attic for “less frequently used” rooms because of the low ceiling height. Maybe for storage and a nice guest room.
On the upper floor, there should be space for a bathroom, bedroom, two children’s rooms, and a utility room for washing and drying.
On the ground floor, living, dining, kitchen + pantry, office, and possibly a shower-gym area should fit.
Heating should go in the basement (energy consultant recommends pellet heating). I’m not sure how good that is; we currently have the THZ504 air-to-water heat pump with ventilation and really like it. I would like to have the same again but don’t know if it is suitable to heat a house that probably won’t get better than KfW 85 standard.
Just a few points:
The house looked interesting on the plan, but in the photos, to me, it looks like a candidate for demolition.
Based on your description, I had somehow imagined a charming rustic farmhouse, but it is far from that.
I don’t really see anything worth preserving. The staircase is nice, but that’s about it. Most of the floors are also damaged and will probably need to be removed for technical reasons.
The house is restorable, but as you said yourself, it’s a complete gut renovation. Almost nothing will be saved.
You basically have to strip everything back, definitely reinforce the structure significantly, and then start completely from scratch.
I see costs at the level of new construction, maybe even higher. There is NOTHING left and EVERYTHING must be taken down and redone.
In that respect, it’s basically uneconomical.
I also wonder: You’re currently three people, right? What do you want to do with such a huge bunker? Even if you redesign it very generously, it’s still a lot of space to maintain and pay for.
This is even more true for the property itself. As @WilderSueden rightly says, maintaining it is a lifetime commitment.
Does the possibility that a few harmless forum members might know your address affect your interest in buying?
I somehow get the feeling that you don’t really have a clear idea of what you want. It’s clear you want to move away from your current house.
You say you want to be closer to your family now. What actually changed compared to a few years ago when you built in the north?
Honestly, I think you need to be a bit clearer about what you really want.
On one hand, a well-functioning house with fiber-optic internet, air conditioning, and all other comfort features where you can spend most of your time working from home, with your child and gaming.
On the other hand, a huge renovation project on a large plot that will cost you much more time and nerves than you might expect, and whose ongoing maintenance will be a serious challenge.
To me, these don’t really fit together. I don’t want to be rude, but maybe you should think about this some more.
The house looked interesting on the plan, but in the photos, to me, it looks like a candidate for demolition.
Based on your description, I had somehow imagined a charming rustic farmhouse, but it is far from that.
I don’t really see anything worth preserving. The staircase is nice, but that’s about it. Most of the floors are also damaged and will probably need to be removed for technical reasons.
The house is restorable, but as you said yourself, it’s a complete gut renovation. Almost nothing will be saved.
You basically have to strip everything back, definitely reinforce the structure significantly, and then start completely from scratch.
I see costs at the level of new construction, maybe even higher. There is NOTHING left and EVERYTHING must be taken down and redone.
In that respect, it’s basically uneconomical.
I also wonder: You’re currently three people, right? What do you want to do with such a huge bunker? Even if you redesign it very generously, it’s still a lot of space to maintain and pay for.
This is even more true for the property itself. As @WilderSueden rightly says, maintaining it is a lifetime commitment.
Does the possibility that a few harmless forum members might know your address affect your interest in buying?
I somehow get the feeling that you don’t really have a clear idea of what you want. It’s clear you want to move away from your current house.
You say you want to be closer to your family now. What actually changed compared to a few years ago when you built in the north?
Honestly, I think you need to be a bit clearer about what you really want.
On one hand, a well-functioning house with fiber-optic internet, air conditioning, and all other comfort features where you can spend most of your time working from home, with your child and gaming.
On the other hand, a huge renovation project on a large plot that will cost you much more time and nerves than you might expect, and whose ongoing maintenance will be a serious challenge.
To me, these don’t really fit together. I don’t want to be rude, but maybe you should think about this some more.
M
Myrna_Loy21 Jan 2022 21:24I understand. Since having children, we also want to live permanently closer to family again. And the house has potential, even if it requires a significant investment. Is it economical? It might be. Is it sustainable? Definitely. And with properties like this, you can convert two-thirds into meadow and mow it twice a year.
I’m sorry that the experience has been so negative. I understand your reaction, especially considering the child.
I’m sorry that the experience has been so negative. I understand your reaction, especially considering the child.
W
WilderSueden21 Jan 2022 21:54To avoid spreading this over two threads 😉
That must be a very clever four-year-old. Though the real estate agent also contributed a lot in that regard. Generally speaking, in times of freely available satellite images, it’s hard to keep a house private.
To return to the floor plan: the house comes with an old layout consisting of several smaller rooms. There’s no longer a modern open-plan concept. Whether this can be modified structurally has to be confirmed by a structural engineer. And whether you want to do this is your decision.
The last point is still not entirely clear to me. So far, you are jumping at all kinds of options: new build on a steep slope, major renovation of this house, from a cozy, flat 600-700sqm (6450-7500 sq ft) new build lot in northern Germany to a 2500sqm (27000 sq ft) plot on a hillside. I get it – we also chased everything available in the Hegau area back then, as long as it was in a reasonably good condition. I fully understand that with a small child, nerves can wear thin, especially if you no longer feel comfortable at home and are about to completely change your life.
But I’m missing the classic room program from other floor plan threads here: 1 master bedroom, 1-2 (or 3?) children’s rooms, 1-2 offices, gym room,... and then seeing if this can be reasonably implemented. Also, the question of how you feel about the garden: is it a hobby or a chore?
In case of doubt, I would also assume that anything listed for more than three weeks without being sold usually has a good reason.
kati1337 schrieb:
That’s true! The project recently discussed is still undecided. I actually created a separate thread where people put a lot of effort into finding the exact address of the property and then described it so thoroughly that even a four-year-old could send me a postcard if we decide to buy it. However, no one really engaged with the actual questions or hoped-for input regarding the floor plan.
That must be a very clever four-year-old. Though the real estate agent also contributed a lot in that regard. Generally speaking, in times of freely available satellite images, it’s hard to keep a house private.
To return to the floor plan: the house comes with an old layout consisting of several smaller rooms. There’s no longer a modern open-plan concept. Whether this can be modified structurally has to be confirmed by a structural engineer. And whether you want to do this is your decision.
The last point is still not entirely clear to me. So far, you are jumping at all kinds of options: new build on a steep slope, major renovation of this house, from a cozy, flat 600-700sqm (6450-7500 sq ft) new build lot in northern Germany to a 2500sqm (27000 sq ft) plot on a hillside. I get it – we also chased everything available in the Hegau area back then, as long as it was in a reasonably good condition. I fully understand that with a small child, nerves can wear thin, especially if you no longer feel comfortable at home and are about to completely change your life.
But I’m missing the classic room program from other floor plan threads here: 1 master bedroom, 1-2 (or 3?) children’s rooms, 1-2 offices, gym room,... and then seeing if this can be reasonably implemented. Also, the question of how you feel about the garden: is it a hobby or a chore?
In case of doubt, I would also assume that anything listed for more than three weeks without being sold usually has a good reason.
Myrna_Loy schrieb:
I understand. Since having children, we also want to live permanently closer to family again. And the house has potential, even if it requires a significant investment. Is it economical? Possibly. Is it sustainable? Definitely. With plots like this, you can convert two-thirds back to meadow and mow it twice a year.
I’m sorry that your experience has been so negative. I understand your reaction, especially considering the child. Yes, that’s the point—and that’s basically what matters to me. This thread included some very specific questions, and even the title was about the floor plan. Apart from very generic information, I hardly heard anything about the floor plan. And legitimately zero feedback on the changes we considered.
Instead, there was a lot of unsolicited life advice, which is as unsettling as it is presumptuous. How do people assume they can tell me I don’t know what I want, and back that up with completely false assumptions?
What has changed in the last five years? Well, I’m married, earn about three times as much, have a son, and my job no longer ties me to one location. But other than that, hardly anything.
Am I aware of the size of the plot? Guess what, maybe I simply don’t put much value on those meticulously weeded, uptight gardens like “Aunt Petunia’s” and would rather have an orchard meadow on 1.5 of the 2.5 square meters (approximately 1.6 of 2.7 square yards) of the land, where I can pick apples in the fall.
Sometimes I wonder if these overbearing online psychologists are actually compensating for something somewhere between the chair and the keyboard.
Well, honestly, what do I have to gain here?
I’ve been following your story for a while now, and that’s the impression I’ve formed.
Maybe less than half of it will actually be accurate, but there seem to be a few points you take seriously enough to feel offended.
Anyway, I really don’t want to upset you. From now on, I’ll just leave such comments out of your threads and focus only on the specific questions you ask.
To get started right away: your first draft is a beginning, but it’s still far too detailed.
I’ve attached a snippet that illustrates the problem.
Without knowing which walls are load-bearing and which aren’t, planning is difficult.
I’ve been following your story for a while now, and that’s the impression I’ve formed.
Maybe less than half of it will actually be accurate, but there seem to be a few points you take seriously enough to feel offended.
Anyway, I really don’t want to upset you. From now on, I’ll just leave such comments out of your threads and focus only on the specific questions you ask.
To get started right away: your first draft is a beginning, but it’s still far too detailed.
I’ve attached a snippet that illustrates the problem.
Without knowing which walls are load-bearing and which aren’t, planning is difficult.
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