ᐅ Floor Plan for a Two-Family House with a Setback Upper Floor – Too Compact?
Created on: 9 Jan 2022 23:41
C
Claudia-W
Good evening everyone,
We recently purchased a fully serviced plot of land in our small town (in northern NRW) and have been working on planning the right house for us for some time. The current floor plan comes from a general contractor, and the challenge is that our house should be as compact as possible (to keep costs from skyrocketing) but still provide enough space for a family of five plus my parents.
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 472m2 (5,078 sq ft)
Slope: no
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Number of parking spaces: 4
Number of floors: 2 (mandatory)
Roof style: open
Maximum heights/limits: max. 10m total height / max. 7m roof height
Other requirements: none (max. 2 residential units)
Client requirements
Style, roof type, building type: urban villa with setback floor
Basement, floors: no / 3
Number of people, ages: 5 (42, 37, 16, 13, 6) plus 2 retirees
Room requirements on ground floor (GF), upper floor (UF):
Office: family use rather than home office
Annual guest stays: 5 times
Open or closed layout: open
Conservative or modern design: modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, no island
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music/stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: yes / yes
Garage, carport: carport
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or excluded:
Our wish was to build a relatively small, compact two-family house on a small plot (472m2) so that we would still have a sufficiently large garden. Initially, we considered planning a separate apartment for my parents, with our living/dining area on the ground floor. However, we quickly realized that a two-full-floor house without an attic conversion would become too wide (about 14.5m (48 feet)), leaving us with hardly any garden. We do not want to convert the attic because we dislike sloped ceilings. We are aware that we have to compromise and build three stories so that the building footprint is not too large. Since my parents are already over 70, their apartment must be on the ground floor, meaning our apartment will be on the first and second floors. Because the roof height may not exceed 7m (23 feet) and we want to avoid sloped ceilings, only a setback floor was feasible for the attic. We actually like the setback floor because it also allows for a roof terrace.
The downside is that we wouldn’t have direct access to the garden from our apartment. This drawback is somewhat bearable because we have three outdoor options: the garden via the stairwell, balcony, and roof terrace. Of course, direct garden access would be better, but we want to grant that to my parents 🙂. If they are no longer with us someday, we would move down and rent out the apartment upstairs or give it to one of the children. Basically, we don’t mind living with others in one house. Currently, we live in a three-family house: we are on the ground floor, my parents upstairs, and acquaintances in the attic. The planned house could theoretically also be used as a three-family house eventually.
House design
Who designed it:
- Planner from a construction company: general contractor
What do you particularly like and why? The house is relatively compact, with sufficient garden space and a roof terrace
What don’t you like? Possibly too small, too compact?
Price estimate according to architect/planner: €540,000 (KfW 40+ house)
Personal price limit for the house, including equipment: €570,000
Preferred heating system: geothermal (only this heating system is offered in the development)
If you had to forgo something, which details/extra features:
- can you do without: balcony
- cannot do without: two residential units
Why is the design as it is now?
Standard design from planner? The design emerged because we want to build a compact house with two residential units.
Which wishes from you were implemented by the architect? Basically all
What do you consider particularly good or bad? The setback floor, free garden area are good; perhaps the room layout overall is not ideal
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Is the house big enough for us and my parents? Did we overlook anything? Is the living/dining area too small? No guest toilet (a problem?), enough storage space? Any feedback on the house is welcome. We are very curious to hear what the experts in this forum think about our project.
Thank you very much and best regards
Claudia
We recently purchased a fully serviced plot of land in our small town (in northern NRW) and have been working on planning the right house for us for some time. The current floor plan comes from a general contractor, and the challenge is that our house should be as compact as possible (to keep costs from skyrocketing) but still provide enough space for a family of five plus my parents.
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 472m2 (5,078 sq ft)
Slope: no
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Number of parking spaces: 4
Number of floors: 2 (mandatory)
Roof style: open
Maximum heights/limits: max. 10m total height / max. 7m roof height
Other requirements: none (max. 2 residential units)
Client requirements
Style, roof type, building type: urban villa with setback floor
Basement, floors: no / 3
Number of people, ages: 5 (42, 37, 16, 13, 6) plus 2 retirees
Room requirements on ground floor (GF), upper floor (UF):
Office: family use rather than home office
Annual guest stays: 5 times
Open or closed layout: open
Conservative or modern design: modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, no island
Number of dining seats: 5
Fireplace: no
Music/stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: yes / yes
Garage, carport: carport
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, including reasons why some options are preferred or excluded:
Our wish was to build a relatively small, compact two-family house on a small plot (472m2) so that we would still have a sufficiently large garden. Initially, we considered planning a separate apartment for my parents, with our living/dining area on the ground floor. However, we quickly realized that a two-full-floor house without an attic conversion would become too wide (about 14.5m (48 feet)), leaving us with hardly any garden. We do not want to convert the attic because we dislike sloped ceilings. We are aware that we have to compromise and build three stories so that the building footprint is not too large. Since my parents are already over 70, their apartment must be on the ground floor, meaning our apartment will be on the first and second floors. Because the roof height may not exceed 7m (23 feet) and we want to avoid sloped ceilings, only a setback floor was feasible for the attic. We actually like the setback floor because it also allows for a roof terrace.
The downside is that we wouldn’t have direct access to the garden from our apartment. This drawback is somewhat bearable because we have three outdoor options: the garden via the stairwell, balcony, and roof terrace. Of course, direct garden access would be better, but we want to grant that to my parents 🙂. If they are no longer with us someday, we would move down and rent out the apartment upstairs or give it to one of the children. Basically, we don’t mind living with others in one house. Currently, we live in a three-family house: we are on the ground floor, my parents upstairs, and acquaintances in the attic. The planned house could theoretically also be used as a three-family house eventually.
House design
Who designed it:
- Planner from a construction company: general contractor
What do you particularly like and why? The house is relatively compact, with sufficient garden space and a roof terrace
What don’t you like? Possibly too small, too compact?
Price estimate according to architect/planner: €540,000 (KfW 40+ house)
Personal price limit for the house, including equipment: €570,000
Preferred heating system: geothermal (only this heating system is offered in the development)
If you had to forgo something, which details/extra features:
- can you do without: balcony
- cannot do without: two residential units
Why is the design as it is now?
Standard design from planner? The design emerged because we want to build a compact house with two residential units.
Which wishes from you were implemented by the architect? Basically all
What do you consider particularly good or bad? The setback floor, free garden area are good; perhaps the room layout overall is not ideal
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Is the house big enough for us and my parents? Did we overlook anything? Is the living/dining area too small? No guest toilet (a problem?), enough storage space? Any feedback on the house is welcome. We are very curious to hear what the experts in this forum think about our project.
Thank you very much and best regards
Claudia
I think the dimensions (heights) should work out (apart from the budget).
While reading, I thought: well, even if the adults don’t like sloped ceilings, you can still give the kids nice rooms under the roof. But then I also thought that the roof terrace does make some sense if you live on the upper floor and leave the garden to the seniors.
However, I only see the roof terrace being used by the kids. I don’t know if it will really be used like that. The gallery too… it’s a cozy area for the kids, but a no-go zone for adults 😉
To put it in order (regardless of the floor plan): You are giving up a larger footprint to keep some garden space, but then you don’t really get much use out of the garden, or the remaining garden area has to be maintained by the seniors.
Does that make sense? In principle, it becomes a two-family house and remains a two-family house, with a small garden portion for the few parking spaces, and that’s it.
Then it is assumed that the 30-year-olds have the same living needs as the seniors over 70.
The seniors’ apartment is nice, but I find the 8-person dining table somewhat out of place and too large. The bedroom feels a bit cramped. A small dining table close to the kitchen makes more sense. Guests can stay more affordably and with more privacy in a hotel. For “later,” the bedroom partition wall could be removed...
But: I want to put another suggestion on the table:
Increase the footprint, place an open-plan kitchen-living area, a WC, and a utility room on the ground floor for the young family, then adjust the upper floor accordingly with a small living room and kids’ rooms. The bedroom could probably fit there as well.
Just as an example in a sketch (without exact measurements or anything, just as a rough size reference)
While reading, I thought: well, even if the adults don’t like sloped ceilings, you can still give the kids nice rooms under the roof. But then I also thought that the roof terrace does make some sense if you live on the upper floor and leave the garden to the seniors.
However, I only see the roof terrace being used by the kids. I don’t know if it will really be used like that. The gallery too… it’s a cozy area for the kids, but a no-go zone for adults 😉
To put it in order (regardless of the floor plan): You are giving up a larger footprint to keep some garden space, but then you don’t really get much use out of the garden, or the remaining garden area has to be maintained by the seniors.
Does that make sense? In principle, it becomes a two-family house and remains a two-family house, with a small garden portion for the few parking spaces, and that’s it.
Then it is assumed that the 30-year-olds have the same living needs as the seniors over 70.
The seniors’ apartment is nice, but I find the 8-person dining table somewhat out of place and too large. The bedroom feels a bit cramped. A small dining table close to the kitchen makes more sense. Guests can stay more affordably and with more privacy in a hotel. For “later,” the bedroom partition wall could be removed...
But: I want to put another suggestion on the table:
Increase the footprint, place an open-plan kitchen-living area, a WC, and a utility room on the ground floor for the young family, then adjust the upper floor accordingly with a small living room and kids’ rooms. The bedroom could probably fit there as well.
Just as an example in a sketch (without exact measurements or anything, just as a rough size reference)
11ant schrieb:
I would arrange for a drug test at the building authority and legal department – as they say at the station, you can look at me for that. I can only say that, in my opinion, the current "utilization" of this regulation has been applied appropriately so far. However, I agree with you that it could potentially be abused. In any case, it certainly helps supporters of stepped roof stories to create additional living space without sloping ceilings.
K1300S schrieb:
As far as I can tell, the current application of this regulation is implemented reasonably well in my view, but of course I agree with you that there can be misuse in some cases. Unfortunately, misuse does not require any doubt. A recessed top floor means an effective wall angle of 90° on all sides without setbacks—and here I have to remind you of the categorical imperative of neighbor protection (especially since most people asking questions here are very sensitive about the full shading of their own property).
K1300S schrieb:
In any case, it obviously helps advocates of recessed top floors to create extra living space without sloping ceilings. Impervious surface area means more than just covering grassy areas with concrete; it generally concerns the necessity of limits regarding how many residents per hectare a community can impose on nature. Rain falls equally for everyone, but wastewater, for example, depends on population numbers. While I understand the desire for homeownership, it simply isn’t acceptable to allow home builders to stack as many people as possible on as little land as possible.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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Claudia-W10 Jan 2022 21:1611ant schrieb:
I don’t even know where to start, this just won’t work as is. So I’ll just pick two appetizers: the maximum 7m (23 feet) eaves height is definitely exceeded here, and you’ll also need to consider at least three parking spaces. With the recessed floor (setback story), the maximum eaves height of 7m (23 feet) is definitely not exceeded. Our general contractor and we ourselves have consulted with the building authority and were confirmed that we can build the house as planned. The recessed floor does not count as a full floor if a maximum of only 3/4 of the floor below is built over. The building regulations (at least in NRW) have even been relaxed in recent years. The recessed floor does not need to be set back 1 or 1.5m (3.3 or 5 feet) from the exterior walls of the floor below. It is sufficient if only 3/4 is built, meaning the recessed floor can be attached to one exterior wall. A few lots away from us (with the same building requirements), a house with a recessed floor is also being built, and the owners have already received their building permit / planning permission from the building authority.
We will have two parking spaces on the east side of the house, and one will be built on the north or west side.
So, those appetizers are out of the way – what’s the main course that could cause us indigestion? 🙂
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Claudia-W10 Jan 2022 21:18hanse987 schrieb:
For a house of this size, I consider the targeted budget to be too low.Additionally, there is around €65,000 (approximately $70,000) in funding, which I had forgotten to include.
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Claudia-W10 Jan 2022 21:25haydee schrieb:
What requirements do your parents have for the granny flat? A detailed room plan,
such as a bedroom with a 4 m (13 ft) continuous wardrobe,
a living room with an XXL sofa, bookshelves about 5 m (16 ft) high.
Also, consider what disabilities they will have to manage within the apartment.
The same applies to you. Create a detailed room plan including the necessary furniture and dimensions.
Draw all furniture to scale, including clearance areas.
For example, for the dining table, a minimum clearance of 80 cm (31 inches) from the edge of the table is assumed. In other words, a table 1 m (3.3 ft) wide requires at least 2.6 m (8.5 ft) width in total.
This way, you can see if your living space is too small.
I would plan the multipurpose room on the top floor, so you have direct access to the outdoor dining area. Thank you for this advice. We will reconsider it. The main contractor and we planned the apartment on the ground floor the same way as the one upstairs for simplicity, since we plan to move to the ground floor in a few years (at least that is the intention). My parents do need quite a bit of space, as they regularly receive visits from their children and grandchildren (they live close to the new development area).
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