ᐅ Architects or Pre-Fabricated House Cost Estimation and Next Steps
Created on: 9 Jul 2021 23:19
M
mk_2021
Hello everyone,
We have been looking into building a house for quite some time now. The more we learn, the more overwhelmed we feel. We have a plot of land in NRW under consideration. Naturally, we want to build a house on it.
1) Our first step was to consult an architect. Overall, the appointment was very pleasant, and we felt comfortable. However, the harsh reality hit us with the first cost estimate:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) at €2,600/sqm (approx. $275/sq ft) for reasonable quality): €480,000
Basement (110 sqm (1,184 sq ft) at €1,700/sqm (approx. $180/sq ft)): €190,000
Double garage: €40,000
Fireplace/stove: €15,000
Kitchen: €40,000
Additional construction costs (e.g., architect, structural engineer, soil survey, MEP planner) (25% of construction costs including garage, etc.): €180,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, some hedges, terrace): €50,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): €12,000
= €1,000,000
These figures are rough estimates only. But €1 million (about $1.05 million) excluding the land already feels quite steep. Are these values realistic?
2) After processing that, we approached a prefabricated house manufacturer and also looked into a traditional builder, Viebrockhaus.
The prefab house company showed strong sales skills in our initial meeting. A rough cost estimate was as follows:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) reasonable quality): €390,000
Basement (€70,000 + €10,000 for excavation disposal; €600–750/sqm (approx. $65–80/sq ft) without finishing, +€15,000 for basic finishing): €100,000 with very basic finishing
Double garage: €30,000
Fireplace/stove: €10,000
Kitchen: €20,000
Additional costs/miscellaneous (e.g., permits, earthworks): €30,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, very basic): €15,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): not specified, so we assume €12,000 again
= €607,000
That sounds more reasonable. Could this be accurate?
The above data is meant as a first orientation. Of course, it’s possible to save money on things like the basement, but this should be comparable.
3) Price-wise, the prefab house clearly looks much better. So we pursued that further. We were advised to get plans and offers from 3–5 prefab house companies to compare. That naturally means multiple sales meetings, plus architectural consultations. Others said it’s better to hire an independent architect first and then get cost estimates from 3–5 prefab house manufacturers. We hadn’t realized that was possible. The architect in point 1) was not enthusiastic about the prefab house idea and it felt like he took it as a personal insult to the architect’s profession.
What do you think is the best way to proceed? Are there any recommendations for prefab or traditional builders in NRW known for good value for money?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Marin
We have been looking into building a house for quite some time now. The more we learn, the more overwhelmed we feel. We have a plot of land in NRW under consideration. Naturally, we want to build a house on it.
1) Our first step was to consult an architect. Overall, the appointment was very pleasant, and we felt comfortable. However, the harsh reality hit us with the first cost estimate:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) at €2,600/sqm (approx. $275/sq ft) for reasonable quality): €480,000
Basement (110 sqm (1,184 sq ft) at €1,700/sqm (approx. $180/sq ft)): €190,000
Double garage: €40,000
Fireplace/stove: €15,000
Kitchen: €40,000
Additional construction costs (e.g., architect, structural engineer, soil survey, MEP planner) (25% of construction costs including garage, etc.): €180,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, some hedges, terrace): €50,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): €12,000
= €1,000,000
These figures are rough estimates only. But €1 million (about $1.05 million) excluding the land already feels quite steep. Are these values realistic?
2) After processing that, we approached a prefabricated house manufacturer and also looked into a traditional builder, Viebrockhaus.
The prefab house company showed strong sales skills in our initial meeting. A rough cost estimate was as follows:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) reasonable quality): €390,000
Basement (€70,000 + €10,000 for excavation disposal; €600–750/sqm (approx. $65–80/sq ft) without finishing, +€15,000 for basic finishing): €100,000 with very basic finishing
Double garage: €30,000
Fireplace/stove: €10,000
Kitchen: €20,000
Additional costs/miscellaneous (e.g., permits, earthworks): €30,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, very basic): €15,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): not specified, so we assume €12,000 again
= €607,000
That sounds more reasonable. Could this be accurate?
The above data is meant as a first orientation. Of course, it’s possible to save money on things like the basement, but this should be comparable.
3) Price-wise, the prefab house clearly looks much better. So we pursued that further. We were advised to get plans and offers from 3–5 prefab house companies to compare. That naturally means multiple sales meetings, plus architectural consultations. Others said it’s better to hire an independent architect first and then get cost estimates from 3–5 prefab house manufacturers. We hadn’t realized that was possible. The architect in point 1) was not enthusiastic about the prefab house idea and it felt like he took it as a personal insult to the architect’s profession.
What do you think is the best way to proceed? Are there any recommendations for prefab or traditional builders in NRW known for good value for money?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Marin
G
Gerddieter4 Jan 2022 20:17The usual dilemma with architects...
You can’t do it WITH one because they don’t really push for cost savings, and with all the engineering fees, the construction becomes expensive (yes, I know, I know 11ant – the good architect supposedly saves their fee through incredible brilliance by designing the project cost-effectively, but I haven’t met one like that yet) and costs remain a black box (“I estimated a mid-range standard” – it doesn’t matter what your ideas are for heating, technology, etc.)
- And you can’t do it WITHOUT one either if you don’t want the absolute basic-standard from some designer who just doesn’t care…
I have been through this and can tell you all about it. My way after long searching that works, although maybe not ideal, is: architect phases 1-4 (nowadays I would probably limit it to phase 3). Always put the brakes on the square meters, even if they say it’s just a bit more masonry...
Then take the plans to a local general contractor with a turnkey fixed-price deal. You will find some with realistic prices, significantly below the architect’s estimate. And the price is based on your choice of specifications – if you want it fancy, it’s expensive; if standard, it’s cheap. Simple as that.
GD
You can’t do it WITH one because they don’t really push for cost savings, and with all the engineering fees, the construction becomes expensive (yes, I know, I know 11ant – the good architect supposedly saves their fee through incredible brilliance by designing the project cost-effectively, but I haven’t met one like that yet) and costs remain a black box (“I estimated a mid-range standard” – it doesn’t matter what your ideas are for heating, technology, etc.)
- And you can’t do it WITHOUT one either if you don’t want the absolute basic-standard from some designer who just doesn’t care…
I have been through this and can tell you all about it. My way after long searching that works, although maybe not ideal, is: architect phases 1-4 (nowadays I would probably limit it to phase 3). Always put the brakes on the square meters, even if they say it’s just a bit more masonry...
Then take the plans to a local general contractor with a turnkey fixed-price deal. You will find some with realistic prices, significantly below the architect’s estimate. And the price is based on your choice of specifications – if you want it fancy, it’s expensive; if standard, it’s cheap. Simple as that.
GD
mk_2021 schrieb:
By mistake, do you mean that he proposed something so individual at all? If so, it was simply that we presented him with our desired room concept—what we like and what we don’t, etc. However, for example, we never discussed the house shape or roof form. He had offered on his own initiative to first develop a proposal. Basically, we thought the approach was good. That sounds fine so far. Did you discuss the procedure thoroughly—see “A Home Building Roadmap, Also for You: the HOAI Phase Model!”—and did you know at every stage of the planning discussions which phase you were in?
mk_2021 schrieb:
We had already cautiously asked whether a certain form would have cost advantages. The answer was that it wouldn’t be that significant, as, for example, the wall volume wouldn’t differ much. If that is really the case, and the costs with an architect for the “standard variant” are similarly (high), then I do wonder where the cost difference to the general contractor comes from? Yes, certain shapes do have cost advantages (which is why general contractors love the “spec houses”), while other shapes—especially hipped roofs over polygonal floor plans like in a T-shaped bungalow—have cost disadvantages. Of course, not everyone has to like a single-pitch roof aesthetically, and each aspect has its limits for how much impact it can have.
mk_2021 schrieb:
Somehow I must be too dumb. Everything I find is that it can also be affordable with an architect. Or what do you mean by that? We would love to work with an architect. It’s not all about the last dollar. But the above-mentioned difference is just too much. Or are we overlooking something here? Where do I find the mistake in our approach? Yes, the above difference is indeed far too large, which is why I suspect there is an error in the process—but from your earlier description, I haven’t identified it yet. When Googling without the exact phrase in quotation marks, more popular results appear first despite being less precise; I mean one whose meta snippet begins with, “As far as we talk about expense due to fee levels, there is some truth in that.”
Gerddieter schrieb:
I’ve been through that and know what that’s like. My path after long research, which might not be ideal: architect phases 1–4 (today I would rather stop at phase 3). Constantly putting the brakes on square meters, even if it’s just a little more masonry...
Then taking the plans to a regional general contractor with a turnkey fixed-price contract. So you consider architect phase 4 unnecessary already and would prefer to give the general contractor “plans” from phase 3? In fact, because of lump-sum pricing, every square meter costs the general contractor, even if it is just a bit more masonry (that’s where the architect pays off again—but only if you go out to tender with them, otherwise not or even the opposite). I recently “asked” you indirectly to show your current design ;-)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
That sounds okay so far. Have you discussed the procedure thoroughly—see "A house building roadmap, also for you: the HOAI phase model!"—and did you know at every point in the planning discussions which phase you were currently in? Not really. But so far, all conversations have been non-binding preliminary talks.
11ant schrieb:
Yes, the above-mentioned difference is significantly too high, which is why I suspect an error in the process—but based on the description above, I have not identified it yet. When googling without the exact phrase in quotation marks, more popular results appear first despite less precise content; I mean one whose meta teaser starts with "As far as we talk about costliness due to the fee level, the saying contains a grain of truth." I’m still confused. But I will try using the search engine again. Regarding the difference, I suspected that it is mainly the architect’s fee because both architects had bundled it in a lump sum under other building-related costs (e.g., work phases 1 to 8, surveyor, HVAC and sanitary planning, geotechnical report), i.e., about 20–25% of the construction costs. Roughly, in the architect’s calculation, the net construction costs are somewhat in the same range as the total construction plus related building costs from the prefabricated house builder.
11ant schrieb:
I already "asked" you indirectly recently to show your current design ;-) That was addressed to Gerddieter, right? I will also post our design once it is a bit further developed.
mk_2021 schrieb:
Not really. So far, these have all been non-binding preliminary discussions.Then "he offered on his own initiative to develop proposals" means an oral contract offer at least up to and including design phase 2 (preliminary design).mk_2021 schrieb:
That was addressed to Gerddieter, right? I will also post our design once it is a bit further along.Yes, that’s correct. He recently wrote something that gave reason to assume he had progressed at least this significant step further.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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