ᐅ Problems with Architects – Building Permit / Planning Permission Process
Created on: 11 Dec 2021 16:10
K
Kalibri
Hello everyone,
I’m feeling a bit frustrated at the moment and need to get this off my chest.
We are building a prefab house. The architect’s fee is set as a fixed percentage of the purchase price. So far, so good.
The house matches the building plan and was supposed to be submitted under the permit-exempt procedure. Our architect included a garage with a flat roof in the building plan. It fit well with the house on the drawings, so at first, we didn’t think much of it.
A few weeks later, the architect called us to say that we would need a variance from the zoning plan for the garage. He told us not to worry, it wouldn’t cause any problems and would be approved easily. Although the zoning plan actually requires shed roofs for outbuildings, we trusted the architect’s word. Personally, the roof shape of the garage doesn’t matter to us.
Last week, I submitted the documents for the permit-exempt procedure to the municipality. The official responsible told me right away that because of the variance, a permit-exempt procedure is not possible. He is forwarding the documents as a full building permit application.
After that, I was frustrated and still am. The garage issue was never really discussed in detail. It was on the building plans as a flat roof garage without much explanation. We were assured the variance would not be a problem and were happy that the entire process would be permit-exempt—without fees and with quick planning certainty.
I feel completely misled right now, especially since the architect charged an extra fee for submitting the permit-exempt application. I had already included this item in my budget, but I hoped it would be handled accordingly.
Now I just hope the permit process won’t take too long, I’m annoyed about the unnecessary fees, and I hope the architect won’t charge us extra for the permit-exempt application. A process that basically only involves ticking a box in the building permit application in a different spot and, on top of that, has no result.
If only he had briefly informed me about the legal situation, I would have accepted a shed roof for the garage. Then I wouldn’t even have minded the several hundred euros fee for ticking a box elsewhere on the permit application. But now we have financial and time-related costs for absolutely nothing...
Sorry for the rant, but it felt good to write it down. The costs are minor compared to the rest of the project, and we’re not under any time pressure. But it’s just so unnecessary... I just hope one day I can enjoy the sight of my flat roof garage.
Of course, I, as the client, am partly to blame for not being better informed. On the other hand, I trusted the architect’s word.
I’m feeling a bit frustrated at the moment and need to get this off my chest.
We are building a prefab house. The architect’s fee is set as a fixed percentage of the purchase price. So far, so good.
The house matches the building plan and was supposed to be submitted under the permit-exempt procedure. Our architect included a garage with a flat roof in the building plan. It fit well with the house on the drawings, so at first, we didn’t think much of it.
A few weeks later, the architect called us to say that we would need a variance from the zoning plan for the garage. He told us not to worry, it wouldn’t cause any problems and would be approved easily. Although the zoning plan actually requires shed roofs for outbuildings, we trusted the architect’s word. Personally, the roof shape of the garage doesn’t matter to us.
Last week, I submitted the documents for the permit-exempt procedure to the municipality. The official responsible told me right away that because of the variance, a permit-exempt procedure is not possible. He is forwarding the documents as a full building permit application.
After that, I was frustrated and still am. The garage issue was never really discussed in detail. It was on the building plans as a flat roof garage without much explanation. We were assured the variance would not be a problem and were happy that the entire process would be permit-exempt—without fees and with quick planning certainty.
I feel completely misled right now, especially since the architect charged an extra fee for submitting the permit-exempt application. I had already included this item in my budget, but I hoped it would be handled accordingly.
Now I just hope the permit process won’t take too long, I’m annoyed about the unnecessary fees, and I hope the architect won’t charge us extra for the permit-exempt application. A process that basically only involves ticking a box in the building permit application in a different spot and, on top of that, has no result.
If only he had briefly informed me about the legal situation, I would have accepted a shed roof for the garage. Then I wouldn’t even have minded the several hundred euros fee for ticking a box elsewhere on the permit application. But now we have financial and time-related costs for absolutely nothing...
Sorry for the rant, but it felt good to write it down. The costs are minor compared to the rest of the project, and we’re not under any time pressure. But it’s just so unnecessary... I just hope one day I can enjoy the sight of my flat roof garage.
Of course, I, as the client, am partly to blame for not being better informed. On the other hand, I trusted the architect’s word.
Kalibri schrieb:
We were assured that the exception would not be a problem and were pleased that the entire project would proceed without needing a building permit / planning permission.Hindsight doesn’t help you now, of course. But you can draw a lesson for the future: I would never accept such statements without a solid explanation. Either you should have asked how they concluded that it wouldn’t be an issue—if the architect had previously secured exactly this exception with this municipality, then maybe. Otherwise, you could have simply called the local authority yourself to confirm.As I said, keep your head up and keep going. I hope this doesn’t cause too much of a delay.
Elokine schrieb:
If the architect has already managed to get exactly this exception approved by this specific municipality, fine. I don't think this is being doubted here - it's just that EXCEPTION and EXEMPTION cannot be combined.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Kalibri schrieb:
I would have expected a bit more commitment and advice from the architect.This was the first blow, but the second one is coming…11ant schrieb:
Not exactly good advertising for the home builder, to whom they owe the job building your house.… Given the number of projects, the architect probably has a lot more work than two years ago. Can one still rely on word-of-mouth advertising for the architect (“I felt well looked after, but one mistake should never have happened”)?Kalibri schrieb:
The architect noticed that the planned flat-roof garage doesn’t comply with the development plan. It was easier for him to fill out the application for an exemption than to change the plan.hampshire schrieb:
The architect clearly doesn’t communicate well, but he’s not fooling you.I would agree with that. Probably related to what I mentioned earlier: many projects mean more mistakes, fewer projects mean fewer mistakes.
Unfortunately, I can’t quote the post by @Elokine: Stand up, adjust your crown, keep going!
… this was the first blow, but the second is coming shortly (see above): this little annoying issue won’t be the only one. You will probably feel frustrated with yourself about 20 more times for not reading or looking carefully enough. There will be many more small unresolved items coming your way—stay calm 🙂
Thank you for your responses.
@ hampshire: In hindsight, I should have been more proactive, that’s true. At least I pushed a bit, otherwise we would probably be much further behind.
@ypg: Yes, I’m trying to take it that way as well. A project like this is a bit of a life lesson.
Since this thread already exists, I have a technical question regarding the topic (state of Bavaria):
When is a special exemption from the zoning plan required for a garage, and when is an isolated deviation from local building regulations possible?
The latter is only allowed for projects exempt from formal procedures.
In Bavaria, exempt projects include:
“Garages, including covered parking spaces, allowed within setback areas with an area of up to 50 m² (approx. 540 sq ft), except in rural or undeveloped areas.”
Our garage is slightly smaller than 50 m² (approx. 540 sq ft). However, to my understanding, it is located in a rural or undeveloped area, meaning next to the house. So this point would not apply.
Am I interpreting this description correctly?
@ hampshire: In hindsight, I should have been more proactive, that’s true. At least I pushed a bit, otherwise we would probably be much further behind.
@ypg: Yes, I’m trying to take it that way as well. A project like this is a bit of a life lesson.
Since this thread already exists, I have a technical question regarding the topic (state of Bavaria):
When is a special exemption from the zoning plan required for a garage, and when is an isolated deviation from local building regulations possible?
The latter is only allowed for projects exempt from formal procedures.
In Bavaria, exempt projects include:
“Garages, including covered parking spaces, allowed within setback areas with an area of up to 50 m² (approx. 540 sq ft), except in rural or undeveloped areas.”
Our garage is slightly smaller than 50 m² (approx. 540 sq ft). However, to my understanding, it is located in a rural or undeveloped area, meaning next to the house. So this point would not apply.
Am I interpreting this description correctly?
H
hampshire12 Dec 2021 15:24Kalibri schrieb:
At least I have already applied some pressure; otherwise, we would probably be much further behind. Applying pressure is the most common and currently popular method to motivate people. However, you can never be sure in which direction they will move, so applying pressure is less effective than other approaches. For example, if you manage to get your service providers personally invested in your project, they will move in the right direction and won't need pressure, which often causes resistance. Ultimately, leadership skills are beneficial.
We also built a "green dot" project under the permit exemption procedure. There were two changes that needed approval from the municipal council: one was the garage located outside the building envelope, and the roof pitch was adjusted to 22 degrees. We still only paid about 150 euros. A regular building permit would have cost much more.
The timing was also reasonable – about two months between submission and the municipal council meeting.
So don’t worry.
The timing was also reasonable – about two months between submission and the municipal council meeting.
So don’t worry.
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