ᐅ Solid wood house / partial self-construction, wall structure / differences
Created on: 13 Oct 2013 09:46
R
Ralf-Bux
Good morning,
I am new here... and also new to the topic of “building a house.”
My wife and I have already read quite a bit, but we are not professionals.
We want to build a healthy single-family wooden house for our family of four.
The choice between wood and stone is no longer a question for us. It will clearly be wood.
Until now, we thought it would be a solid wood house. At first, a modern log house, but after further research, we have now settled on Holz 100 or rather “Only Wood” by Rombach.
After several discussions with general contractors, carpenters, etc., we finally consulted an architect (it would then be KfW 40 standard) who told us that we would be better off with a wood frame construction.
We are generally aware of the differences, but we are not really sure and would be very grateful for your opinions.
Especially the technical pros and cons regarding energy efficiency, building ecology, wall construction...
We are planning a 130sqm (1400 sq ft) single-family house with 4 bedrooms plus a spare room... and of course kitchen and other rooms. No basement. The plot is already owned. Heating should be provided only by a masonry heater. Hot water with an on-demand water heater + photovoltaics. (If necessary, infrared heating).
The budget is clearly set at 210,000 EUR for everything. That will be challenging, of course, but we have several craftsmen in the family and plan to do quite a bit of the work ourselves.
Thank you very much...
Ralf
I am new here... and also new to the topic of “building a house.”
My wife and I have already read quite a bit, but we are not professionals.
We want to build a healthy single-family wooden house for our family of four.
The choice between wood and stone is no longer a question for us. It will clearly be wood.
Until now, we thought it would be a solid wood house. At first, a modern log house, but after further research, we have now settled on Holz 100 or rather “Only Wood” by Rombach.
After several discussions with general contractors, carpenters, etc., we finally consulted an architect (it would then be KfW 40 standard) who told us that we would be better off with a wood frame construction.
We are generally aware of the differences, but we are not really sure and would be very grateful for your opinions.
Especially the technical pros and cons regarding energy efficiency, building ecology, wall construction...
We are planning a 130sqm (1400 sq ft) single-family house with 4 bedrooms plus a spare room... and of course kitchen and other rooms. No basement. The plot is already owned. Heating should be provided only by a masonry heater. Hot water with an on-demand water heater + photovoltaics. (If necessary, infrared heating).
The budget is clearly set at 210,000 EUR for everything. That will be challenging, of course, but we have several craftsmen in the family and plan to do quite a bit of the work ourselves.
Thank you very much...
Ralf
A
AallRounder25 Nov 2013 14:43@Friedrich:
What gentlemen, you joker?
Here we have real women’s power! Truly Empowered – Powerful – Intense...
What gentlemen, you joker?
Here we have real women’s power! Truly Empowered – Powerful – Intense...
friedrich27 schrieb:
Great discussion. By the way, the original poster is a woman—what do you think she must think about the gentlemen here??? To err is masculine.
O
ohneWissen25 Nov 2013 19:23I actually didn’t want to get involved anymore and considered deleting my account. I’m not sure what interests everyone here has. I thought this was a forum where you could get neutral explanations from people who know their stuff, because everyone says something different and as a layperson you don’t know who to believe anymore. I also want to clarify that back when it was decided that we would build, I consulted an experienced architect. It’s not like I’m just being stingy and don’t appreciate professional advice.
I also attended the traveling exhibition from the Federal Ministry for Housing and have kilos of brochures about building materials and insulation here. But if you don’t understand much about the subject, that alone doesn’t help you find the right supplier for your house. The architect strongly advised me against timber houses and recommended solid construction instead. At that time, the budget was not even an issue.
However, after researching at the exhibition and visiting some timber houses, I formed the opinion that timber houses are great. We were only truly convinced after staying overnight at the Nurholz Hotel. The climate there was wonderful, and I slept just as well as in the clay-wood holiday apartment in Kaiserstuhl.
We also didn’t shy away from driving 800km (500 miles) to visit manufacturers. As laypersons, our impression was that the Rombach family provides good wood, high quality workmanship, and is trustworthy. But they don’t build directly themselves. So we had to find a carpenter nearby as well. We trust him too. However, it turned out that our budget wasn’t quite enough for our desired house. That means we either have to compromise on size or features, or switch to a completely different building method.
Maybe not build a bungalow after all, if that’s cheaper. But there are various opinions on that too. I can’t judge. I only understand that the foundation and roof cost twice as much as if you have two levels. But whether the extra cost balances out the savings from not having intermediate floors, I can’t judge myself. So again, I rely on the architect’s opinion. We can hardly do anything ourselves.
And a few words about architects: if you’re lucky to find a good one, that’s really great and worth every euro. It’s not that simple, though. And the argument that it saves costs is not always true. We know three people who were all satisfied with their builder or prefabricated house manufacturer but disappointed with their architects. Some cases are even in court. A colleague told me last week that he fired his architect during the construction phase because the costs exploded and the architect couldn’t handle the project.
I would also appreciate it if more focus was placed here on technical questions.
I also attended the traveling exhibition from the Federal Ministry for Housing and have kilos of brochures about building materials and insulation here. But if you don’t understand much about the subject, that alone doesn’t help you find the right supplier for your house. The architect strongly advised me against timber houses and recommended solid construction instead. At that time, the budget was not even an issue.
However, after researching at the exhibition and visiting some timber houses, I formed the opinion that timber houses are great. We were only truly convinced after staying overnight at the Nurholz Hotel. The climate there was wonderful, and I slept just as well as in the clay-wood holiday apartment in Kaiserstuhl.
We also didn’t shy away from driving 800km (500 miles) to visit manufacturers. As laypersons, our impression was that the Rombach family provides good wood, high quality workmanship, and is trustworthy. But they don’t build directly themselves. So we had to find a carpenter nearby as well. We trust him too. However, it turned out that our budget wasn’t quite enough for our desired house. That means we either have to compromise on size or features, or switch to a completely different building method.
Maybe not build a bungalow after all, if that’s cheaper. But there are various opinions on that too. I can’t judge. I only understand that the foundation and roof cost twice as much as if you have two levels. But whether the extra cost balances out the savings from not having intermediate floors, I can’t judge myself. So again, I rely on the architect’s opinion. We can hardly do anything ourselves.
And a few words about architects: if you’re lucky to find a good one, that’s really great and worth every euro. It’s not that simple, though. And the argument that it saves costs is not always true. We know three people who were all satisfied with their builder or prefabricated house manufacturer but disappointed with their architects. Some cases are even in court. A colleague told me last week that he fired his architect during the construction phase because the costs exploded and the architect couldn’t handle the project.
I would also appreciate it if more focus was placed here on technical questions.
F
friedrich2725 Nov 2013 20:34I, too, actually wanted to withdraw completely after yesterday’s private messages.
Well, I’ll give it another try.
The problem is that you are extremely resistant to advice.
You keep obsessing about your Rombach wood. No one denies that it’s good. But if you can’t afford it, then you really need to let it go.
Of course, timber construction is great, but it doesn’t consist of just Rombach.
If you have fallen in love with such a niche product but can’t afford it, then you also need to throw their advertising claims in the trash. Naturally, every company will praise its own product highly and judge other construction methods negatively to justify their own product.
If, for reasons I don’t understand, you reject cross-laminated timber, then you need to consider timber frame construction. If you reject the commonly used OSB board there, then you need to look into diagonal sheathing. Then someone will have to explain how to make the structure airtight and windproof with it. There are a thousand possibilities. Leading you there in this forum seems to be asking too much.
With every suggestion you get, you immediately counter with opposing arguments. How are we supposed to help you like this?
Which construction method is best and most affordable for you is not something that can be addressed in just a few words. It requires thorough investigation. You surely don’t expect that from the forum.
I told you to finally free yourself from system providers, and what do you say:
“We have three acquaintances who were all satisfied with their builder or prefab house manufacturer but disappointed with their architects. Some cases even ended up in court. A colleague told me last week he also kicked out his architect during the construction phase because costs exploded and he couldn’t get a grip on it.”
Acquaintances are not good advisers:
“The brother-in-law of a colleague knows someone who heard from someone.” Nice text I once found on the internet.
You’ve been through that before—satisfaction or dissatisfaction of another person is highly subjective and doesn’t have to apply to you at all.
I’m trying to make it clear that you need to let go of the system providers because they cannot meet your requirements. You actually noticed this yourself at the beginning (everyone offers something different or something along those lines you wrote). Now you’re back with the system providers again. I’m not talking about architects who make the designs of a prefab house supplier or builder construction-ready, but about a freelance and neutral architect who plans your house with you. Someone who translates your wishes and knockout criteria into an affordable plan. But I think that architect will soon give up in frustration if you don’t let go of the accumulated mess of information.
Of course, it’s somewhat challenging to find a suitable architect who is also experienced in timber construction. I am sure the Nuremberg Chamber of Architects can assist you with that.
Regards, Friedrich.
Well, I’ll give it another try.
The problem is that you are extremely resistant to advice.
You keep obsessing about your Rombach wood. No one denies that it’s good. But if you can’t afford it, then you really need to let it go.
Of course, timber construction is great, but it doesn’t consist of just Rombach.
If you have fallen in love with such a niche product but can’t afford it, then you also need to throw their advertising claims in the trash. Naturally, every company will praise its own product highly and judge other construction methods negatively to justify their own product.
If, for reasons I don’t understand, you reject cross-laminated timber, then you need to consider timber frame construction. If you reject the commonly used OSB board there, then you need to look into diagonal sheathing. Then someone will have to explain how to make the structure airtight and windproof with it. There are a thousand possibilities. Leading you there in this forum seems to be asking too much.
With every suggestion you get, you immediately counter with opposing arguments. How are we supposed to help you like this?
Which construction method is best and most affordable for you is not something that can be addressed in just a few words. It requires thorough investigation. You surely don’t expect that from the forum.
I told you to finally free yourself from system providers, and what do you say:
“We have three acquaintances who were all satisfied with their builder or prefab house manufacturer but disappointed with their architects. Some cases even ended up in court. A colleague told me last week he also kicked out his architect during the construction phase because costs exploded and he couldn’t get a grip on it.”
Acquaintances are not good advisers:
“The brother-in-law of a colleague knows someone who heard from someone.” Nice text I once found on the internet.
You’ve been through that before—satisfaction or dissatisfaction of another person is highly subjective and doesn’t have to apply to you at all.
I’m trying to make it clear that you need to let go of the system providers because they cannot meet your requirements. You actually noticed this yourself at the beginning (everyone offers something different or something along those lines you wrote). Now you’re back with the system providers again. I’m not talking about architects who make the designs of a prefab house supplier or builder construction-ready, but about a freelance and neutral architect who plans your house with you. Someone who translates your wishes and knockout criteria into an affordable plan. But I think that architect will soon give up in frustration if you don’t let go of the accumulated mess of information.
Of course, it’s somewhat challenging to find a suitable architect who is also experienced in timber construction. I am sure the Nuremberg Chamber of Architects can assist you with that.
Regards, Friedrich.
O
ohneWissen25 Nov 2013 22:50I believe I already mentioned in the text that we need to look for alternatives. It's not exactly true that we are fixed on Rombach. The first architect was recommended to me by the chamber as completely independent and experienced. I think by now everyone has their own opinion on what is good or bad. Some swear by Poroton bricks, others by KVH wood, and others again on glue-free timber.
B
Bauexperte26 Nov 2013 01:31Good evening,
And—while you probably believe you “know” your acquaintances—can you be sure the disappointment with the architect isn’t partly related to how those acquaintances handled their relationship with their architect?
You have received many good answers—especially on the topic of adhesives. You will always have to make compromises; I have not written for nothing that everyone must stop breathing if they want to survive the day without harm from pollutants. First, become clear about exactly what you want, then start looking for people who can answer your questions in a detailed conversation lasting several hours. Steer clear of system providers—they logically want to sell their product. Instead, look for independent consultancy; the association of independent experts could be a good starting point. Among them are specialists for almost every material to be used. The advantage—besides independence—is that they are up to date; they are always informed about the latest information.
Once you have found “your” system this way, you can start looking for a provider that suits your needs.
Regards, Bauexperte
ohneWissen schrieb:To then do what?
I actually didn’t want to join in anymore and planned to delete my account.
ohneWissen schrieb:Don’t you think it’s a bit naive to assume that this forum is solely run by selfless people when it is used by individuals who are part of our society today?
I thought this was a forum where you get neutral explanations from people who know what they’re talking about, because everyone tells you something different and as a layperson you don’t know who to believe anymore.
ohneWissen schrieb:In today’s society, if that were the case, you would be in the majority of the general population.
I also want to make it clear that back when it was certain we would build, I consulted an experienced architect. It’s not that someone is just being stingy and doesn’t appreciate professional advice.
ohneWissen schrieb:This is always a point that doesn’t quite make sense to me. If I want to build a house—regardless of the system or provider—wouldn’t it be wise to first determine how much money I can invest before proceeding with detailed project discussions?
At that time, it wasn’t even about the budget.
ohneWissen schrieb:I’ll be a bit provocative now: you would have probably slept well in a show home of provider “xyz” too. These events are designed with a certain build-up... and at the end of the day, the statements made before the event tend to prove true.
When I was at the exhibition and looked at some timber houses, I thought timber houses are great. We were only truly convinced when we stayed overnight at the all-wood hotel. The atmosphere there was amazing, and I slept just as well as I did in the clay-wood holiday apartment in Kaiserstuhl.
ohneWissen schrieb:A bungalow is more expensive because the entire floor plan, including the technical installations, has to be accommodated on a larger, single-level area. In typical single-family home construction, this is usually spread over two floors. This naturally increases not only the size of the foundation slab but also the roof area. This is what drives up the costs of a bungalow; by the way, this is independent of the system or provider.
Maybe not build a bungalow if it’s cheaper. But there are differing opinions on this as well. I can’t judge. All I understand is that the foundation slab and roof cost twice as much as if I had two floors. But whether the extra cost balances out with the eliminated intermediate floors, I can’t say myself. I rely on the architect’s statement again. We can hardly do anything ourselves.
ohneWissen schrieb:Actually, it is quite straightforward; you just aren’t looking in the right places. Free yourself from the experiences of family and friends and visit a new development near you. Ask the homeowners there about their experiences and whether they would recommend their architect. You can also consult your regional architectural association, consumer protection agencies, or relevant professional organizations; even inspection bodies like TÜV oversee quite a few construction projects.
And I also want to say a few words about architects. If you’re lucky enough to find a good one, that’s really great and worth every euro. It’s not that easy.
ohneWissen schrieb:They could have informed themselves in forums or again through the architectural association. An architect does not work with fixed prices—if they did, they would be a general contractor and liable not only for their planning but for the entire construction project.
And the argument that the architect saves money doesn’t always hold true. We know three acquaintances who were all happy with their builder or prefab home manufacturer but were disappointed by their architects. Some cases even went to court. A colleague said last week that he fired his architect during construction because costs completely exploded and the architect couldn’t manage the project.
And—while you probably believe you “know” your acquaintances—can you be sure the disappointment with the architect isn’t partly related to how those acquaintances handled their relationship with their architect?
ohneWissen schrieb:The house building forum is not a wish fulfillment platform—you’re not the first to experience this firsthand and certainly not the last.
I would also appreciate it if more technical questions were prioritized here.
ohneWissen schrieb:Exactly, because there is no “one stone” or “one wood system”; every system has its advantages and disadvantages. I myself have written this so many times that I can’t recall. While you would prefer that technical questions were prioritized, I would rather see you among those who make the effort to read many posts here in the forum.
I believe everyone has their own opinion about what is good or bad. One swears by Poroton bricks, another by KVH (kiln-dried structural lumber) wood, and yet another by glue-free timber.
You have received many good answers—especially on the topic of adhesives. You will always have to make compromises; I have not written for nothing that everyone must stop breathing if they want to survive the day without harm from pollutants. First, become clear about exactly what you want, then start looking for people who can answer your questions in a detailed conversation lasting several hours. Steer clear of system providers—they logically want to sell their product. Instead, look for independent consultancy; the association of independent experts could be a good starting point. Among them are specialists for almost every material to be used. The advantage—besides independence—is that they are up to date; they are always informed about the latest information.
Once you have found “your” system this way, you can start looking for a provider that suits your needs.
Regards, Bauexperte
Similar topics