ᐅ Gas Price Increase Effective January 1, 2022

Nordlys schrieb:

what right do I have to say that?

Societies have always needed rules, values, and standards to enable a pleasant life.

These can be as simple as not killing or stealing.
It goes further with not littering everywhere or, for example, not releasing gases into our atmosphere that will cause major problems for us and future generations and severely limit our freedom.

Selfishness is not always acceptable.

Isn’t this hard to understand? It’s not about selfishness or not, but about an Orwellian behavior control, which is already quite normal in China—societal, meaning party-compliant behavior equals a plus, etc. For example, my son is a scientist. He flies back and forth to Denver, London, Rome, and other places to give lectures, and so on. My wife and I drive about 8,000 km (5,000 miles) per year with our Twingo, heat with gas, fly rarely, and hike in the Lüneburg Heath.
But for some people here, the gas boiler becomes a fetish for saving the world.

Nordlys schrieb:


But for some here, the gas boiler becomes a fetish for saving the world.

Well, rather the air-source heat pumps, which are now supposed to save the world.

Everyone who heats with gas gets disqualified and bashed here.

Smialbuddler schrieb:

The general bashing of gas heating users here is really not okay; it also affects people like us who simply had no other option or had other reasons.

Even Smialbuddler distances himself from gas users who "chose" it. Are we supposed to apologize now with "my general contractor was overwhelmed with air-source heat pumps"? I have given my reason. But for some here, there are no weaknesses; everything is perfect—except for the others who make mistakes 😉

HilfeHilfe schrieb:

Bought turnkey. Nothing was changeable.

also a second-class person...

I think it is good and also appropriate for a forum dealing with house construction to also address the ecology of building and operation.
Existing buildings are, of course, a different topic.
And I don’t quite understand why nordlys is now taking his son and the Twingo out.

How high are the gas heating costs in a new build of yours before and after the increase?
From what point would it also be financially worthwhile to switch to another technology?

Pinkiponk schrieb:

We will move into the new house in about 12 months.

Given the current price developments, I would strongly reconsider this now.

Nordlys schrieb:

No, bashing is never okay.

Recently, I went to our favorite café in Dresden with my son. There, we were almost barked at because we were wearing masks when entering. They said we live in a free country, and requiring masks infringes on our freedom rights.
I replied that we were actually exercising our freedom to the fullest by wearing our masks completely voluntarily. He responded by saying that if he had a say, he would ban it. Apparently, he meant that he would like to impose on everyone what he personally considers freedom, a kind of totalitarian freedom.
"Bashing," or shouting at others and lecturing them with finger-pointing, does not lead to a meaningful conversation. Everyone should ask themselves when they last allowed themselves to be convinced by something they previously completely disagreed with... 😱 (except maybe by the best wife in the world after seeing the rolling pin...)
The new widespread hobby nowadays is to "know it all!"
Unfortunately, I rarely experience genuinely engaging discussions. Everyone immediately has 100 indisputable arguments and calculations ready explaining why their position is the one and only. Of course, that is usually not the case, as one might realize, and if I "bash" or put others down, I in turn elevate myself a little bit. This is a common but rather pathetic trick... I would much prefer to be genuinely convinced in an open and factual discussion. If someone barks at me, I lose interest.
Yes, @Nordlys, bashing is absolute nonsense, because it usually isn’t about the actual topic but about pretending to know everything.

RotorMotor schrieb:

This can be as simple as not killing or stealing.
It also goes further with not littering everywhere or not releasing gases into our atmosphere that will cause big problems for us and others in the future and severely restrict our freedom.

That’s true.
Still, it already gets complicated with the "not killing" part if you don’t only consider the Cain and Abel story. Self-defense (and excess thereof), abortion, euthanasia, etc.
Regarding gases released into the air, there is no single cure-all; there are nuanced and understandable positions on these issues as well. Otherwise, one would have to say having children is forbidden, or adopt China’s one-child policy, or stop driving cars altogether, since everything somehow causes emissions; then I wouldn't be allowed to exempt anything for myself at all.
Therefore, it’s also about making nuanced decisions that come as close as possible to this goal AND are socially acceptable. There is no absolute right or wrong; it would be nice if it were that simple.
For every heat pump owner or cyclist, I could find 100 points (myself included) that might label them as environmental offenders because they do these things out of comfort or convenience. I once dated a hardcore environmentalist, and I’m cured now. Their own behavior was always okay, and any transgressions were brilliantly justified and relativized…