ᐅ Wall Costs: Is It Worth Calculating Yourself? And What Are the Costs of Brick Recycling?

Hello,
During my preliminary private building planning today, I ran some calculations on different exterior wall options regarding U-values and costs. Now, I’m interested in your opinions:
- Does it even make sense for a layperson (who’s just collecting price info online) to do this kind of comparison? Or are the internet values so inaccurate that I could have just guessed?
- Is recycling existing bricks another sensible (cost) option? How can I estimate the time/costs involved in preparing the bricks that will come from the demolition anyway? Are there any experience-based references?
To clarify upfront: Yes, I will consult an architect. And yes, I will get advice from a construction company. I just don’t want to go into these discussions completely unprepared.

The house I’m envisioning will be integrated into an existing four-sided brick farmyard complex. For this, an existing open shed (in the center of the photo) will be demolished and rebuilt on the same spot. Demolition will yield bricks (the shed extends further to the left). The new building should at least have the “brick look” of the rest of the farmyard on the courtyard side. For this, I see three options: facing bricks (clinker), brick slips (thin brick veneers), or recycled bricks.
In my private calculations, I found the following (obviously, this only concerns rough orders of magnitude):

Length	19.2	m	Window ratio	0.2
Height	6.3	m	Area	97	m²
Material	Thickness	λ (thermal conductivity)	R (thermal resistance)	U (U-value)	Material cost	Labor cost	Total cost	Total cost overall
	mm				€/m²[/TD>	[RIGHT]€/m²[/TD>	[RIGHT]€/m²[/TD>	[RIGHT]€[/TD>
Cement plaster	[RIGHT]10	1.4	0.007		1	15	16	1552
Poroton T16	240	0.16	1.5		58.85	60	118.85	11528
Rockwool insulation	180	0.04	4.5		20	20	40	3880
Facing bricks (antique)	115	0.96	0.12		60	45	105	10185
Option 1	545		6.297	0.159			279.85	27145
Cement plaster	10	1.4	0.007		1	15	16	1552
Poroton U8	365	0.08	4.563		176	87	263	25511
Facing bricks (antique)	115	0.96	0.12		60	45	105	10185
Option 2	490		4.86	0.206			384	37248
Cement plaster	10	1.4	0.007		1	15	16	1552
Poroton U8	365	0.08	4.563		176	87	263	25511
Brick slips (antique)	20	0.96	0.021		40	40	80	7760
Option 3	395		4.761	0.21			359	34823

From this, I draw the following conclusions:
1. Insulating with rock wool is significantly cheaper than a thicker (Poroton) brick (it’s a pity, I would have preferred a monolithic wall structure).
2. Brick slips are only slightly cheaper than facing bricks (which is good).
3. For roughly €6,000 in brick costs, you could spend some time preparing the existing old bricks; and they would then look just like the rest of the bricks on the farmyard.

Is this basically correct, or did I just waste a few pointless hours (okay, I also enjoyed calculating the U-values ;-)?

Karl

karl.jonas schrieb:

- Does it even make sense to do this (for a layperson checking online prices)?

No

karl.jonas schrieb:

Or are the online prices found so inaccurate that I could have just guessed?

Yes

karl.jonas schrieb:

- Is another option, recycling existing bricks, a reasonable (cost) alternative?

Who processes the bricks so they can be reused? Only worthwhile in owner-led projects.

karl.jonas schrieb:

Insulation (using mineral wool) is significantly cheaper than a thicker (Poroton) brick (too bad, I would have liked a monolithic wall structure)

Brick veneer buildings are the most expensive option. It’s not due to the material, but the high labor costs.

karl.jonas schrieb:

Does something like this even make sense for a layperson who is looking up prices online?

No

karl.jonas schrieb:

Insert existing four-sided brick farmyard complex.

Maybe you could explain what that is.

karl.jonas schrieb:

First of all: Yes, I will consult with an architect. And yes, I will also seek advice from a contracting company. I just don’t want to go into these discussions completely unprepared.

This should actually be written as a foreword in the autograph books of all future homeowners:
No one needs to show up to their architect acting overly knowledgeable. Very few things are more dangerous than appearing to have partial knowledge and perhaps even correctly using some technical terms by pure chance when dealing with professionals. Then they assume you already understand, stop explaining, and suddenly you end up talking past each other (and in the worst-case scenario, you only realize it when the wall is in the wrong place but the ceiling is already installed). Being a layperson is nothing to be ashamed of. Going to an architect without a half-finished plan is not the same as showing up disheveled and unkempt!

But now to your specific question from today:
I almost want to say, "Son, you’re going to be the death of me," but you keep surprising me, and I’ll have to keep that bottle of heart medicine within reach. Next, you’ll probably find half a dozen stand mixers somewhere cheaply and ask if you can mix mortar with them. I respect your enthusiasm, but if you want to be taken seriously by construction professionals, you might want to start on the level of sports machines before trying to read up to the engineers’ level.

I have to admit, I don’t know if the women who cleared the rubble back then received only heavy labor food coupons or also a few Reichspfennig per hour. What I can say for sure is that nowadays you can only use solid bricks to pave your yard and garden paths, but not for exterior walls anymore (and due to their size, only to a limited extent for non-load-bearing interior walls). And I’m quite sure you still haven’t fully understood my contribution regarding facing bricks.

Furthermore, I advise you to reconsider whether you are even allowed to do what you want here:
Specifically, apparently replacing a likely borderline tractor shelter with a residential building. What building regulations or planning permissions / building permits actually apply to your plot here? It seems to me you’re naively assuming a presumed grandfathering of the existing development on the lot and overlooking the different regulations that apply to habitable rooms versus storage rooms in borderline construction (?)

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https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/

Thank you for responding to my post, even though my questions were clearly somewhere between naive and absurd. Regarding your follow-up questions and comments:

@Benutzer200: "Who prepares the bricks so that they can be reused?"
This would not be done as a DIY task, but rather paid for by the hour. However, it seems that is no longer an option anyway.

@ypg: The "four-sided brick courtyard farm complex" is a former farmstead with buildings on all four sides (residential house, barn, shed, stables), constructed around 1900 using mostly brick with little timber framing.

@11ant: "Few things are more dangerous than showing up among professionals half-knowledgeable and possibly using technical terms correctly only by chance."
I found this statement quite surprising. You briefly explained it, but what would the consequence be? Either I undergo full construction management training and know exactly what I’m dealing with, or I don’t get involved at all and just let the architect or construction manager handle everything? I could write much more, but this is not the right thread for that, and I don’t want to bore you. However, if you’re interested, let me know.

"And I’m pretty sure you haven’t understood much from my brick post yet."
Do you mean the post "Brick cladding: thin brick tiles or facing bricks"? I found nothing there about reused bricks. But when searching here ("for bricks/11ant"), I found your tip: "For laypeople building for the first time (and only once), guides by others in the same situation are the ‘most useful’ advisors. So check out building blogs online." Isn’t that exactly what I’m doing? Which "brick post" did you mean exactly?

"...whether you are even allowed to do what you want here:"
Fair point. So far, I have spoken to two local architects who both said it is no problem. But of course, I still need to clarify this with the building authority / planning permission office.

I have no intention of approaching the architect or construction manager as an equal (and so far, I think I have made it quite clear how little I know). Thank you for your understanding,
Karl

karl.jonas schrieb:

but what would be the consequence?

Not showing up with less than a quarter-charged expert knowledge battery when dealing with professionals. The architect is on your side – they will explain what they mean. It’s different with the builder; it’s not uncommon to reasonably assume they have a certain amount of street-smartness, or at least to “suspect” it ;-).

karl.jonas schrieb:

but this post isn’t really the right place for that, and I don’t want to bore you. But if you’re interested, let me know.

In your thread, every aspect of your topic is “correctly” addressed, and you’re not boring me. I’ve just learned by now that I better buckle up before answering your questions ;-).
By the way, I already invited you to take advantage of the fact that you now know how to reach me by email.

karl.jonas schrieb:

Do you mean the post “Brick Slips: Thin Bricks or Facing Bricks”? I don’t find anything about used bricks there.

Yes, that’s the one I meant, and I will gladly dedicate a follow-up on used bricks for you in the next few weeks. You mentioned in several places, among others,

karl.jonas schrieb:

Thin bricks are only slightly cheaper than facing bricks

apparently distinguishing thin bricks from facing bricks; it would be more accurate to say “facing bricks,” since they themselves are also klinkers.

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https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/