Hello everyone,
In my last post, you pointed out that our plans, especially the idea of having a granny flat in a bungalow that didn’t really fit the plot, are not feasible as they stand. Therefore, we have decided that it will be a townhouse.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 579 sqm (6,230 sq ft)
Slope: no
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries: 23 m (75 ft) wide by 14 m (46 ft) deep. 3 m (10 ft) setback to the left and right; carport/garage allowed on the boundary. House in this design sized 13 m x 11.5 m (43 ft x 38 ft). Maximum buildable area is 150 sqm (1,615 sq ft), which we want to fully utilize.
Edge development: no
Number of parking spaces: 4
Number of storeys: 2
Roof style: hipped roof
Architectural style
Orientation: terrace facing south towards the street
Maximum height / limits: 9 m (30 ft) height
Additional requirements
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: townhouse
Basement, floors: no basement, 2 floors, attic to be converted later
Number of people, ages: currently 2 adults (33 and 30), one baby, one more child possible
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor: approx. 115 sqm (1,237 sq ft) on the ground floor including approx. 40 sqm (430 sq ft) granny flat, approx. 115 sqm (1,237 sq ft) on the first floor, attic may be converted later, hence the stairs
Office: family use or home office?: home office
Number of overnight guests per year: overnight guests accommodated in the granny flat, otherwise holiday rentals
Open or closed layout: open
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, planned
Number of dining seats: 6
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: later double carport
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons for including or excluding certain elements: granny flat is intended for holiday rental, open concept with kitchen / living / dining desired.
House Design
Planner: ourselves
What do you particularly like? Why?: the open concept kitchen / dining / living area
What do you dislike? Why? the bathroom is very large, the layout / space feels wasted
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: not finalized yet
Personal budget limit including fixtures and fittings: open, for now it is just about the floor plan
Preferred heating system: air source heat pump
If you had to give up, which details / expansions
- can you give up: the sauna, more of a “spur of the moment” idea
- cannot give up: granny flat, open concept layout
Why is the design like it is now?
For example: our own (limited) creativity, continually “improved”.
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Does this floor plan work for everyday life, are there major flaws, should we swap rooms?
We welcome your input and ideas. The floor plan currently just reflects our concept and is not yet planned to the centimeter. Walls and windows can still be moved.
In my last post, you pointed out that our plans, especially the idea of having a granny flat in a bungalow that didn’t really fit the plot, are not feasible as they stand. Therefore, we have decided that it will be a townhouse.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 579 sqm (6,230 sq ft)
Slope: no
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries: 23 m (75 ft) wide by 14 m (46 ft) deep. 3 m (10 ft) setback to the left and right; carport/garage allowed on the boundary. House in this design sized 13 m x 11.5 m (43 ft x 38 ft). Maximum buildable area is 150 sqm (1,615 sq ft), which we want to fully utilize.
Edge development: no
Number of parking spaces: 4
Number of storeys: 2
Roof style: hipped roof
Architectural style
Orientation: terrace facing south towards the street
Maximum height / limits: 9 m (30 ft) height
Additional requirements
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: townhouse
Basement, floors: no basement, 2 floors, attic to be converted later
Number of people, ages: currently 2 adults (33 and 30), one baby, one more child possible
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor: approx. 115 sqm (1,237 sq ft) on the ground floor including approx. 40 sqm (430 sq ft) granny flat, approx. 115 sqm (1,237 sq ft) on the first floor, attic may be converted later, hence the stairs
Office: family use or home office?: home office
Number of overnight guests per year: overnight guests accommodated in the granny flat, otherwise holiday rentals
Open or closed layout: open
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, planned
Number of dining seats: 6
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: later double carport
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons for including or excluding certain elements: granny flat is intended for holiday rental, open concept with kitchen / living / dining desired.
House Design
Planner: ourselves
What do you particularly like? Why?: the open concept kitchen / dining / living area
What do you dislike? Why? the bathroom is very large, the layout / space feels wasted
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: not finalized yet
Personal budget limit including fixtures and fittings: open, for now it is just about the floor plan
Preferred heating system: air source heat pump
If you had to give up, which details / expansions
- can you give up: the sauna, more of a “spur of the moment” idea
- cannot give up: granny flat, open concept layout
Why is the design like it is now?
For example: our own (limited) creativity, continually “improved”.
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Does this floor plan work for everyday life, are there major flaws, should we swap rooms?
We welcome your input and ideas. The floor plan currently just reflects our concept and is not yet planned to the centimeter. Walls and windows can still be moved.
What floor-to-floor height are you considering? Keep in mind that the floor-to-floor height also includes the floor construction and ceiling. Floor-to-floor height is not the same as clear ceiling height!
The floor-to-floor height shown in the example drawing results in a clear ceiling height of about 250 cm (98 inches), depending on the floor construction and ceiling thickness.
The floor-to-floor height shown in the example drawing results in a clear ceiling height of about 250 cm (98 inches), depending on the floor construction and ceiling thickness.
Mathias2021 schrieb:
House in this design planned at 13m x 11.5m (42.7ft x 37.7ft). A maximum of 150 sqm (1615 sq ft) may be built, and we want to make full use of this. [...]
Maximum height/limits: 9m height (29.5ft) [...] repeatedly "improved" The garage counts towards the site coverage ratio I — the house is too large. An attic conversion with a roof pitch that complies with the height restriction will be completely unrealistic, especially with a hipped roof. Please show the original plan before the "improvements."
Mathias2021 schrieb:
Access on the left of AZ1, so basically above the (too short) staircase. You are really stretching my imagination here — and bear in mind I have over forty years of experience in floor plan design.
Mathias2021 schrieb:
But it does not have to be, if a smarter room layout emerges, The first step would be planning the rooms based on actual needs instead of dividing a (furthermore incorrectly sized) maximum floor area.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Mathias2021 schrieb:
I just want to focus on the floor plan here. Then please be realistic and focus on realistic dimensions where, for example, a toilet can actually be used or a room feels spacious.
What exactly do you want to convert in the attic if you are allowed to build a maximum height of 9 meters (30 feet)?
Mathias2021 schrieb:
It just happened that way, Try to plan and design, not just draw what happens. It would also be good if the ground floor supports the walls and roof of the upper floor.
There are some tips regarding house and room orientation here https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/leitfaden-zur-hausplanung-auf-dem-Grundstück.30891/. If you had spent today inside this house, none of the six hours of sunlight would have reached your living area, apart from the bedroom and bathroom.
For an open and modern design, you should also plan windows according to the size of the rooms.
The terrace (not the garage @11ant …, I am quite sure about that from my own house, but not 100%… and there are also zoning plans that explicitly override the state building regulations) belongs to the floor area ratio. This means you definitely have to build smaller (regardless of who is right). And since I am also a bit confused by the topic: You hardly know the basics, don’t know how tall a story is or will be (see attic conversion and staircase), so I simply advise you to find an architect or a building contractor who can give you a rough offer. Then we can still follow up here.
M
Mathias20211 Nov 2021 07:2411ant schrieb:
Please show the plans before the "improvements." Since these are currently just our plans, they probably won’t be any better.
11ant schrieb:
You’re really stretching my imagination here. And keep in mind, I have over forty years of experience in floor plan design. At least in the case of townhouses, I know that the stairs from the ground floor to the first floor and from the first floor to the attic are aligned vertically.
ypg schrieb:
There are also some tips on house and room orientation here https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/leitfaden-zur-hausplanung-auf-dem-Grundstück.30891/. If you had spent today in this house, not a single one of the six hours of sunlight would have reached your living area, except for the bedroom and bathroom. Thanks for the link; I will take a look. That’s exactly what I’m after—getting suggestions for improvements to our planning so we can present the general contractor (GC) with a clear and feasible idea, rather than having them design without direction.
ypg schrieb:
And for an open and modern layout, you should plan windows that fit the size of the rooms accordingly. As I said, walls and windows can still be shifted. The windows currently serve as placeholders. (The same goes for the wardrobes in the children's room. These have not yet been purchased and can of course be placed elsewhere.)
ypg schrieb:
This means you definitely have to build smaller (regardless of who is right). The terrace may additionally take up a maximum of 30m² (320ft²), so I do NOT have to build smaller. Since I was only referring to the floor plan, I didn’t mention this specifically.
ypg schrieb:
I simply recommend that you find an architect or a building contractor (BC) who can offer you a rough plan. We already have a BC but want to approach them with a specific and feasible idea—and I really appreciate your input here, since you have the experience and I don’t—so that we can save a few rounds of planning.
ypg schrieb:
Then you can always take it from there. We can close this discussion here if you want, and I might come back with the BC’s draft. I just assumed it would be better to check in around 11:30 rather than just before noon, since the planning is still wide open in all directions.
Many thanks so far for your input. What I’m definitely taking away is that the staircase needs to be changed. That obviously has consequences for the floor plan.
Mathias2021 schrieb:
The bathtub can also be omitted, or the wall slightly moved; we are still not completely satisfied with the layout.
We actually like it very much, which is why there is a small hallway, because we deliberately don’t want the bedrooms to open directly into the hallway.
The staircase is to the left of AZ1, so basically above the (too short) staircase.
I completely understand, but our financial situation has improved. I would like to focus here only on the floor plan.
It is important to us because family members travel a long way, but spatial separation for a longer stay is very important to us. Additionally, there is the option of renting it out. The family lives far away, okay. For us, both parents live 200 km and 450 km (125 miles and 280 miles) away. When they come—after a long time without seeing each other—do you really want to kick them out? That I don’t really understand. Wouldn’t a guest room of 15-18 square meters (160-195 square feet) be sufficient?
And renting out a basement or granny flat on a 500 square meter (5,400 square feet) lot? Then I might as well buy a condominium. The privacy would be exactly the same...
This is kind of the typical building style in Germany. The main thing is to have a large size. But you should also know that rooms need to be tidy and actually used. What will you do, for example, if there is no second child? Then you have a so-called "soda room." It’s better to go smaller and focus more on quality.
Your staircase drawings in the floor plan do not take into account the space requirements of a quarter-turn staircase. You need to allow at least 130 cm (51 inches) for the tread depth and a length of at least 330–350 cm (130–138 inches).
Of course, cabinets and similar items have not yet been purchased, but when designing floor plans, it is important to also consider possible furniture arrangements and include them in the drawings. This helps to assess whether a room has a harmonious layout. For children’s rooms, for example, I always plan with beds that are 140 cm (55 inches) wide—a common preference among teenagers I know. Naturally, they don’t need beds this size at the age of 2 years, but the room should be able to accommodate them later on.
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