ᐅ Floor Plan: 1.5-Story Gable Roof House Without Basement – Feedback or Suggestions?
Created on: 3 Oct 2021 21:29
C
ChristianAusN
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: Approx. 28x23m (92x75 ft), 644m² (6,931 ft²)
Slope: No
Floor space index (FSI): 0.35
Plot ratio: 0.5
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: See image, plot P53
Edge development: Garage, max. 9m (30 ft) per side, max. 15m (49 ft) total
Number of parking spaces
Number of floors: 1.5
Roof type: Gable roof, 42-48°
Style: "Classic"(?)
Orientation: 16° east, see also floor plan drawing
Maximum heights/limits: Max. wall height (from top plate to roof covering) = 4.2m (14 ft)
Additional requirements: Ridge running parallel to the street
Client Requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: See above
Basement, floors: No basement, 1.5 floors
Number and ages of occupants: 2 adults in their mid-30s, teenager 15 years old, girl 2 years old, possibly one more child planned
Space requirements on ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF): As per plan, shower option on GF is important, study on GF should be adaptable as master bedroom in later years
Office: Family use or home office? Regular home office use by "him", room on GF additionally used as sewing room by "her"
Guest bedrooms per year: Few or none
Open or closed layout: Open living-dining-kitchen area, but without stairs in the living room
Traditional or modern construction: Somewhere in between
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Open, preferably a freestanding island
Number of dining seats: 8
Fireplace: No
Music/surround sound wall: Speakers for 5.1 system should be possible in the living room
Balcony, roof terrace: Not needed
Garage, carport: Double garage with space for workbench/bicycles
Utility garden, greenhouse: No
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons for choices:
- Mandatory secondary bathroom with shower on GF
- Upper floor passage to garage roof desired: quick transfer of winter/summer clothes, for example
- Good sound insulation between rooms on UF
- Planning aimed to keep as much distance as possible from the street to the south and neighbor to the west (when sitting on the terrace)
- Dormer in the middle room on UF to have at least one room without a sloped ceiling
House Design
Designer: Do-it-yourself
What is liked most?
- Open living-dining-kitchen area
- With view over (almost) the entire plot (garden, driveway)
- Lots of storage / expansion options in attic of house and garage roof (to be accessible directly from UF)
- Dressing room as a passage into bathroom on UF
What is disliked?
All mostly small compromises in our eyes:
- Slightly longer route from kitchen to terrace
- Slightly longer route from entrance to pantry (groceries can also be delivered from front of kitchen)
- Upper floor hallway gets little natural daylight
- If entrance is separated as a windbreak, it is only about 1.8m (6 ft) deep (but we’d initially keep it open)
- Bathroom light on UF only from double casement window (above toilet)
Estimated price fromarchitect/planner for own planning: Based on relatively recent offers – depending on self-work 440,000 - 500,000€ including plot
Personal price limit for house including fittings: +50k
Preferred heating technology: Heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details/expansions
- Could give up: Walk-in shower on UF (if necessary with glass door is OK), dormer on middle room UF, passage on UF to garage (with major regrets...)
- Cannot give up: Study on GF, shower bathroom on GF
Why did the design turn out the way it did? e.g.
Standard design from planner?
No, inspired by found floor plans, houses of acquaintances, many discussions between us.
Standard plans usually have an entrance on the north side, which makes no sense with access from the south as in our case. Since it wasn’t possible to sensibly integrate an entrance on the south side, it was moved to the side – aligned between house and garage.
At the same time, we wanted to keep as much garden as possible. Neither passersby in the south, nor the neighbor on the west “on top of us” when we sit on the terrace.
A small rule when planning the rooms was: “no walls shorter than 3 meters (10 ft).”
We also did not want a landing or half-turn staircase, as it could no longer be covered under the gable roof on the UF if the attic should ever be converted.
The staircase should be separated from the living area – optionally by a large sliding door. When our son heads out with friends on a Saturday evening, we don’t want the whole group walking through the living room.
The lady of the house placed great importance on access from the dressing room to the bathroom – which was not easy to plan, especially combined with the sloped ceiling.
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
No specific question. Our biggest concerns are the L-shaped staircase and the small overhang on the UF. The hallway on UF is also quite narrow at 1.13m (3 ft 8 in) in front of the bathroom. A straight staircase would take space from the master bedroom in the northwest, so we’d probably accept the current version with reservations.
We also debated for a long time how to unify the garage door position and passage door on UF. Currently, there is an open passage below, but the garage is attached to the house above. You want to be able to push a bike or scooter out of the garage without moving a car.
We are unsure about the window behind the couch: visually it seems almost necessary, direct sunlight should be blocked by the terrace roof, but in the evening you would have the entire property and street behind you. The couch also must be directly opposite the TV/wall unit (home cinema).
I’m afraid that was more than 130 characters...
Looking forward to your opinions!
Best regards
Plot size: Approx. 28x23m (92x75 ft), 644m² (6,931 ft²)
Slope: No
Floor space index (FSI): 0.35
Plot ratio: 0.5
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: See image, plot P53
Edge development: Garage, max. 9m (30 ft) per side, max. 15m (49 ft) total
Number of parking spaces
Number of floors: 1.5
Roof type: Gable roof, 42-48°
Style: "Classic"(?)
Orientation: 16° east, see also floor plan drawing
Maximum heights/limits: Max. wall height (from top plate to roof covering) = 4.2m (14 ft)
Additional requirements: Ridge running parallel to the street
Client Requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: See above
Basement, floors: No basement, 1.5 floors
Number and ages of occupants: 2 adults in their mid-30s, teenager 15 years old, girl 2 years old, possibly one more child planned
Space requirements on ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF): As per plan, shower option on GF is important, study on GF should be adaptable as master bedroom in later years
Office: Family use or home office? Regular home office use by "him", room on GF additionally used as sewing room by "her"
Guest bedrooms per year: Few or none
Open or closed layout: Open living-dining-kitchen area, but without stairs in the living room
Traditional or modern construction: Somewhere in between
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Open, preferably a freestanding island
Number of dining seats: 8
Fireplace: No
Music/surround sound wall: Speakers for 5.1 system should be possible in the living room
Balcony, roof terrace: Not needed
Garage, carport: Double garage with space for workbench/bicycles
Utility garden, greenhouse: No
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons for choices:
- Mandatory secondary bathroom with shower on GF
- Upper floor passage to garage roof desired: quick transfer of winter/summer clothes, for example
- Good sound insulation between rooms on UF
- Planning aimed to keep as much distance as possible from the street to the south and neighbor to the west (when sitting on the terrace)
- Dormer in the middle room on UF to have at least one room without a sloped ceiling
House Design
Designer: Do-it-yourself
What is liked most?
- Open living-dining-kitchen area
- With view over (almost) the entire plot (garden, driveway)
- Lots of storage / expansion options in attic of house and garage roof (to be accessible directly from UF)
- Dressing room as a passage into bathroom on UF
What is disliked?
All mostly small compromises in our eyes:
- Slightly longer route from kitchen to terrace
- Slightly longer route from entrance to pantry (groceries can also be delivered from front of kitchen)
- Upper floor hallway gets little natural daylight
- If entrance is separated as a windbreak, it is only about 1.8m (6 ft) deep (but we’d initially keep it open)
- Bathroom light on UF only from double casement window (above toilet)
Estimated price from
Personal price limit for house including fittings: +50k
Preferred heating technology: Heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details/expansions
- Could give up: Walk-in shower on UF (if necessary with glass door is OK), dormer on middle room UF, passage on UF to garage (with major regrets...)
- Cannot give up: Study on GF, shower bathroom on GF
Why did the design turn out the way it did? e.g.
Standard design from planner?
No, inspired by found floor plans, houses of acquaintances, many discussions between us.
Standard plans usually have an entrance on the north side, which makes no sense with access from the south as in our case. Since it wasn’t possible to sensibly integrate an entrance on the south side, it was moved to the side – aligned between house and garage.
At the same time, we wanted to keep as much garden as possible. Neither passersby in the south, nor the neighbor on the west “on top of us” when we sit on the terrace.
A small rule when planning the rooms was: “no walls shorter than 3 meters (10 ft).”
We also did not want a landing or half-turn staircase, as it could no longer be covered under the gable roof on the UF if the attic should ever be converted.
The staircase should be separated from the living area – optionally by a large sliding door. When our son heads out with friends on a Saturday evening, we don’t want the whole group walking through the living room.
The lady of the house placed great importance on access from the dressing room to the bathroom – which was not easy to plan, especially combined with the sloped ceiling.
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
No specific question. Our biggest concerns are the L-shaped staircase and the small overhang on the UF. The hallway on UF is also quite narrow at 1.13m (3 ft 8 in) in front of the bathroom. A straight staircase would take space from the master bedroom in the northwest, so we’d probably accept the current version with reservations.
We also debated for a long time how to unify the garage door position and passage door on UF. Currently, there is an open passage below, but the garage is attached to the house above. You want to be able to push a bike or scooter out of the garage without moving a car.
We are unsure about the window behind the couch: visually it seems almost necessary, direct sunlight should be blocked by the terrace roof, but in the evening you would have the entire property and street behind you. The couch also must be directly opposite the TV/wall unit (home cinema).
I’m afraid that was more than 130 characters...
Looking forward to your opinions!
Best regards
11ant schrieb:
I don’t think a universal answer like “42” would be found in Neufert, even though I haven’t seen every edition ;-)
The popular amateur cook Dr. Alfred Biolek used to say “iudex non calculat,” which apparently also applies to design artists. The more designer-like the architect, the more they tend to disdain plain numbers and leave that to the structural engineers.A former classmate of mine (now Dr. of Architecture) said: “If you want it to look good, ask the architect. If you want it to work, ask the structural engineer.” :-)
Tom1978 schrieb:
Doctor of ArchitectureWhere can you earn a doctorate in that? — I only know the Dr.-Ing., notably with a hyphen.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
Where can you earn a doctorate in this field? - I only know the Dr.-Ing., mind you with a hyphen.Yes, you get the Dr. Ing. But he studied architecture in Hannover and also earned his doctorate there.
C
ChristianAusN6 Oct 2021 09:58Hello ypg,
thank you for your detailed and honest words!
That was actually created on the other side, the living room side. There was a 62.5cm (25 inches) recess for a wall unit (...) whose side I later converted into the mentioned slope.
By the way, regarding measurements, I worked with a 12.5cm (5 inches) grid.
Yes, I recently came across that as well – I probably need to reconsider whether it’s possible to build over two steps.
Sealing: Yes, good point. Thank you.
Energetically: I don’t necessarily see that as a disadvantage. The wall between the garage and the house (upper floor) would, of course, be built with the same brick as the rest of the exterior walls. Next to it is usually a closed air space, which, seen from the house, offers (maybe not a bad) resistance against outdoor temperatures.
I understand that point. By “less demanding tenants,” I was more thinking of children who will eventually grow up ;-)
I agree with you there; that probably doesn’t quite fit together.
That would mean insulating the roof fully from the start, all the way to the top, since it would always be open to the attic (instead of just insulating up to the upper floor ceiling). I will have to think about that.
Yes, the €400,000 (400,000 euros) is a good estimate / €100,000 (100,000 euros) for land and additional construction costs.
160-175m² (1,722-1,883 sq ft), attic conversion / insulation for the garage and attic was not initially planned—only the sloped walls on the upper floor or the upper floor ceiling, of course.
This is its own calculation mostly based on real offers (family involved in construction, status: around April 2021). They are currently building a 12 x 10m (39 x 33 feet) city villa (2 full floors) with an 8 x 8m (26 x 26 feet) garage, both with hip roofs. I adopted their offer prices and added a 10% “price increase buffer” for myself.
For example, their shell construction offer from the local mason (site setup, equipment/scaffolding, concrete slab house + garage, ground floor + upper floor with 42.5cm (17 inch) bricks, garage 24cm (9.5 inch) bricks, reinforced concrete ceilings for house + garage) is around €90,000 (90,000 euros).
Rural southern Germany (about 80 km (50 miles) to the next city with over 100,000 inhabitants), by the way.
Also to consider: during the approximately 3 months of shell construction, I can contribute roughly 650 helper hours, mainly for
- assisting with masonry work (only a foreman and the master periodically on site – e.g., for the first row)
- 100% electrical installation on my own (experience and acceptance/registration options available through family)
- roof covering
- insulation and sealing works on upper floor / roof
Admittedly, the landscaping is not included in my calculation.
Yes, that is probably good advice, thank you.
Overall, I read your objections mainly as: Better give up some garden area and plan the house larger (?)
General contractors and prefab house providers will probably be out of the question due to the planned self-performed work, right?
To be honest: I’m also not willing to pay someone tens of thousands of euros for tendering, commissioning, and organizing the trades.
An architect also seems to be a bit of a gamble – I’ve already heard of things that even I, as a layman, wouldn’t have planned like that. But it is probably the way to go...
Thanks again and best regards!
thank you for your detailed and honest words!
ypg schrieb:
I think this slope looks more like it was done intentionally but not skillfully. Anyway.
If you even out the corner, you would have a good spot behind the door in the office to place cabinets
That was actually created on the other side, the living room side. There was a 62.5cm (25 inches) recess for a wall unit (...) whose side I later converted into the mentioned slope.
By the way, regarding measurements, I worked with a 12.5cm (5 inches) grid.
ypg schrieb:
And whether you have to duck your head under the built-over staircase might be explained to you by @kbt09
Yes, I recently came across that as well – I probably need to reconsider whether it’s possible to build over two steps.
ypg schrieb:
The roof must be carefully sealed to the actual house. Energetically, it must work along with the garage (which is also a cost factor)
Sealing: Yes, good point. Thank you.
Energetically: I don’t necessarily see that as a disadvantage. The wall between the garage and the house (upper floor) would, of course, be built with the same brick as the rest of the exterior walls. Next to it is usually a closed air space, which, seen from the house, offers (maybe not a bad) resistance against outdoor temperatures.
ypg schrieb:
Additionally, there is a plan for the upper floor to be used later as an independent living unit. Without a balcony and with quite small calcium silicate bricks, you probably won’t attract the most demanding tenants above you
I understand that point. By “less demanding tenants,” I was more thinking of children who will eventually grow up ;-)
ypg schrieb:
Meanwhile, you want to be happy with your small shower bathroom
I agree with you there; that probably doesn’t quite fit together.
ypg schrieb:
Regarding storage space, you can position a nice fixed staircase above the actual staircase and use the attic. That way, future homeowners could even create a hobby room there.
That would mean insulating the roof fully from the start, all the way to the top, since it would always be open to the attic (instead of just insulating up to the upper floor ceiling). I will have to think about that.
ypg schrieb:
You plan a house of about 160? sqm gross, which will cost about €400,000, plus additional construction costs and usual additional costs like landscaping
ypg schrieb:
What kind of offers are those? What do these offers include? How much is the land? What construction-related additional costs are you calculating?
I see, even without knowing the land price, you don’t seem to include the massive double garage with insulated, finished roof
Yes, the €400,000 (400,000 euros) is a good estimate / €100,000 (100,000 euros) for land and additional construction costs.
160-175m² (1,722-1,883 sq ft), attic conversion / insulation for the garage and attic was not initially planned—only the sloped walls on the upper floor or the upper floor ceiling, of course.
This is its own calculation mostly based on real offers (family involved in construction, status: around April 2021). They are currently building a 12 x 10m (39 x 33 feet) city villa (2 full floors) with an 8 x 8m (26 x 26 feet) garage, both with hip roofs. I adopted their offer prices and added a 10% “price increase buffer” for myself.
For example, their shell construction offer from the local mason (site setup, equipment/scaffolding, concrete slab house + garage, ground floor + upper floor with 42.5cm (17 inch) bricks, garage 24cm (9.5 inch) bricks, reinforced concrete ceilings for house + garage) is around €90,000 (90,000 euros).
Rural southern Germany (about 80 km (50 miles) to the next city with over 100,000 inhabitants), by the way.
Also to consider: during the approximately 3 months of shell construction, I can contribute roughly 650 helper hours, mainly for
- assisting with masonry work (only a foreman and the master periodically on site – e.g., for the first row)
- 100% electrical installation on my own (experience and acceptance/registration options available through family)
- roof covering
- insulation and sealing works on upper floor / roof
Admittedly, the landscaping is not included in my calculation.
ypg schrieb:
Since the money won’t cover a jack-of-all-trades, I would focus on your current needs
Yes, that is probably good advice, thank you.
ypg schrieb:
The mentioned passersby are your neighbors, against whom you could also shield with a hedge
Overall, I read your objections mainly as: Better give up some garden area and plan the house larger (?)
ypg schrieb:
I recommend an architect for an appropriate redesign or a general contractor to optimize a standard house according to size and orientation. Experimenting is allowed, but usually it’s not actually built.
General contractors and prefab house providers will probably be out of the question due to the planned self-performed work, right?
To be honest: I’m also not willing to pay someone tens of thousands of euros for tendering, commissioning, and organizing the trades.
An architect also seems to be a bit of a gamble – I’ve already heard of things that even I, as a layman, wouldn’t have planned like that. But it is probably the way to go...
Thanks again and best regards!
M
Myrna_Loy6 Oct 2021 10:17I always find it amusing how many people here plan on at least one of their children staying in the house. 🙂
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