ᐅ Bathtub placed in front of window, parapet too low, general contractor is refusing to cooperate
Created on: 20 Sep 2021 14:02
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BananaJoe
Hello everyone,
we are building our house with a general contractor (GC) and have agreed on a fixed price.
In the bathroom, we have a window with a sill height of 1.12 m (3 ft 8 in) finished floor level (FFL), which is partially located above the bathtub and a small shelf (between the bathtub and the exterior wall), on the right side in the picture.
Both I and our expert noticed that according to the building regulations (Hessen), parapet or railing heights must be at least 80 cm (31.5 inches), measured either from finished floor level (which is complied with here) or from any steps, platforms, or similar climbing aids located in front of it (which is not the case here due to the bathtub and shelf). Although we have lockable handles on the upper floor window, our expert says an additional safety measure is required, for example, the installation of a (glass) railing similar to those used on French balconies.
This is also reflected in the recommendations for enforcement of the Hessian Building Code issued by the Ministry of Economic Affairs (marginal note 35.3.1):
“The height of the parapet is generally measured from the top edge of the finished floor to the top edge of the window sill or another fixed parapet-like element, excluding the window frame. If there are elements in front of the parapet, such as cable ducts or ventilation channels, which could be used to climb up, the measurement must be taken from the top edge of those elements.”
Since we have two small children who will eventually bring friends home to play, we strongly believe that some safety provision is necessary here. Our GC, however, sees no need for action because the window has a lockable handle. I have already informed the GC that we would report this issue to the responsible building authority if necessary, so they can verify whether this is compliant (we have built under an exemption procedure, so the building application has not yet been reviewed in detail). Based on the Ministry’s recommendation, I am quite confident that the authority will agree with our expert.
Now to my question: who pays for the additional safety measure (assuming the building authority requires it)?
From a brief search, I found fairly good glass railings (since our bathroom window faces the street, we want the railing to be as discreet as possible, e.g., no bars or similar) for about 500 euros. Including installation, I expect the total cost would not exceed 1,000 euros.
In my view, it’s simple: I purchased a house that complies with legal requirements. If the GC’s planning does not meet these standards and requires rework, they should cover the cost. The GC (or our site manager), on the other hand, argues that if the building authority demands the railing, it was simply overlooked in the planning and therefore not included in the fixed price. If they had known the railing was needed, the price would have been higher, meaning we should bear the cost.
I consider that unreasonable; otherwise, fixed prices are pointless. As a layperson, I assume that the fixed price guarantees a house that meets legal standards. Otherwise, the GC could plan anything and later—if it turns out the structure is unsafe, violates the zoning plan, or is otherwise incorrect—increase the price by whatever amount is necessary to fix the planning mistake...
What’s your opinion?
we are building our house with a general contractor (GC) and have agreed on a fixed price.
In the bathroom, we have a window with a sill height of 1.12 m (3 ft 8 in) finished floor level (FFL), which is partially located above the bathtub and a small shelf (between the bathtub and the exterior wall), on the right side in the picture.
Both I and our expert noticed that according to the building regulations (Hessen), parapet or railing heights must be at least 80 cm (31.5 inches), measured either from finished floor level (which is complied with here) or from any steps, platforms, or similar climbing aids located in front of it (which is not the case here due to the bathtub and shelf). Although we have lockable handles on the upper floor window, our expert says an additional safety measure is required, for example, the installation of a (glass) railing similar to those used on French balconies.
This is also reflected in the recommendations for enforcement of the Hessian Building Code issued by the Ministry of Economic Affairs (marginal note 35.3.1):
“The height of the parapet is generally measured from the top edge of the finished floor to the top edge of the window sill or another fixed parapet-like element, excluding the window frame. If there are elements in front of the parapet, such as cable ducts or ventilation channels, which could be used to climb up, the measurement must be taken from the top edge of those elements.”
Since we have two small children who will eventually bring friends home to play, we strongly believe that some safety provision is necessary here. Our GC, however, sees no need for action because the window has a lockable handle. I have already informed the GC that we would report this issue to the responsible building authority if necessary, so they can verify whether this is compliant (we have built under an exemption procedure, so the building application has not yet been reviewed in detail). Based on the Ministry’s recommendation, I am quite confident that the authority will agree with our expert.
Now to my question: who pays for the additional safety measure (assuming the building authority requires it)?
From a brief search, I found fairly good glass railings (since our bathroom window faces the street, we want the railing to be as discreet as possible, e.g., no bars or similar) for about 500 euros. Including installation, I expect the total cost would not exceed 1,000 euros.
In my view, it’s simple: I purchased a house that complies with legal requirements. If the GC’s planning does not meet these standards and requires rework, they should cover the cost. The GC (or our site manager), on the other hand, argues that if the building authority demands the railing, it was simply overlooked in the planning and therefore not included in the fixed price. If they had known the railing was needed, the price would have been higher, meaning we should bear the cost.
I consider that unreasonable; otherwise, fixed prices are pointless. As a layperson, I assume that the fixed price guarantees a house that meets legal standards. Otherwise, the GC could plan anything and later—if it turns out the structure is unsafe, violates the zoning plan, or is otherwise incorrect—increase the price by whatever amount is necessary to fix the planning mistake...
What’s your opinion?
S
Smialbuddler20 Sep 2021 20:52Aside from the main question, I think you are worrying for the "wrong reasons" or from the wrong perspective.
From your initial post, it seems you have been concerned ever since you (or your expert) read the guideline aimed at the (supposed) protection of children. Without knowing the guideline, you found the bathtub in front of the window with this type of railing acceptable.
As far as I know, these railing heights are not specified because of endangered children – quite the opposite, they are for the protection of adults. It is about the center of gravity and tipping point. If an average-sized person leans on, for example, a 70 cm (28 inch) railing and loses balance, they will topple over it. That is why such railings are no longer allowed nowadays (though existing installations are usually grandfathered in).
For children, to be honest, it does not really matter if they need to climb 20 cm (8 inches) higher. Your lockable handles are much safer in that regard.
Perhaps this information will help you see the situation more calmly?
From your initial post, it seems you have been concerned ever since you (or your expert) read the guideline aimed at the (supposed) protection of children. Without knowing the guideline, you found the bathtub in front of the window with this type of railing acceptable.
As far as I know, these railing heights are not specified because of endangered children – quite the opposite, they are for the protection of adults. It is about the center of gravity and tipping point. If an average-sized person leans on, for example, a 70 cm (28 inch) railing and loses balance, they will topple over it. That is why such railings are no longer allowed nowadays (though existing installations are usually grandfathered in).
For children, to be honest, it does not really matter if they need to climb 20 cm (8 inches) higher. Your lockable handles are much safer in that regard.
Perhaps this information will help you see the situation more calmly?
BananaJoe schrieb:
But a new build where none of the windows in the main bathroom can be fully opened is no longer state of the art nowadays, right? State of the art would be designing a bathroom that updates the arbitrary layout of a standard house model or the framework contract template in terms of comfort and other aspects. This should also be reviewed after the shell construction phase by the sanitary contractor involved. Ventilation would be state of the art with a mechanical ventilation system.
Some regulations should simply be reconsidered to see whom they actually protect.
In my opinion, you’re exaggerating a bit here. I think the likelihood of anything happening is very low. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be allowed to have any small tables, chairs, or stools in rooms where the window can be fully opened. When your children bring their friends home, they should be old enough to understand that you shouldn’t jump out of the window….
Do you seriously lock the windows in the kids’ rooms? Honestly, I don’t know what I would do with lockable handles on the upper floors. We don’t even use them on the ground floor. Burglars wouldn’t be stopped by them anyway.
If you’re really worried, just install a lockable handle and that’s it. Bathroom windows are usually only fully opened briefly for ventilation, if at all.
Do you seriously lock the windows in the kids’ rooms? Honestly, I don’t know what I would do with lockable handles on the upper floors. We don’t even use them on the ground floor. Burglars wouldn’t be stopped by them anyway.
If you’re really worried, just install a lockable handle and that’s it. Bathroom windows are usually only fully opened briefly for ventilation, if at all.
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Myrna_Loy21 Sep 2021 09:23We have had lockable handles on the windows in the upper floor ever since our almost three-year-old stood on the windowsill with the window open. He wanted to water the flowers on the balcony and had built a step from boxes to reach it. I only noticed because suddenly there was a draft in the hallway. Not funny.
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hampshire21 Sep 2021 16:06FloHB123 schrieb:
In my opinion, you are exaggerating here. I believe the likelihood of something happening is very low.The chance that an irrational fear can be resolved by a rational argument is extremely small. We don’t fear things because they are objectively more dangerous than others, but because they resonate with us emotionally. For a while, people were afraid to go to Christmas markets and felt alarmed in the presence of a cloth-wrapped man with a full beard. Anyone with an active imagination who has stories or images in their head would do well to learn how to manage that. Whether children are at risk of falling out of a window or not—if someone worries about it, that worry reduces quality of life. If this can be prevented with a guardrail, it is an excellent investment—completely regardless of what you or I may think.Similar topics