ᐅ Bathtub placed in front of window, parapet too low, general contractor is refusing to cooperate
Created on: 20 Sep 2021 14:02
B
BananaJoe
Hello everyone,
we are building our house with a general contractor (GC) and have agreed on a fixed price.
In the bathroom, we have a window with a sill height of 1.12 m (3 ft 8 in) finished floor level (FFL), which is partially located above the bathtub and a small shelf (between the bathtub and the exterior wall), on the right side in the picture.
Both I and our expert noticed that according to the building regulations (Hessen), parapet or railing heights must be at least 80 cm (31.5 inches), measured either from finished floor level (which is complied with here) or from any steps, platforms, or similar climbing aids located in front of it (which is not the case here due to the bathtub and shelf). Although we have lockable handles on the upper floor window, our expert says an additional safety measure is required, for example, the installation of a (glass) railing similar to those used on French balconies.
This is also reflected in the recommendations for enforcement of the Hessian Building Code issued by the Ministry of Economic Affairs (marginal note 35.3.1):
“The height of the parapet is generally measured from the top edge of the finished floor to the top edge of the window sill or another fixed parapet-like element, excluding the window frame. If there are elements in front of the parapet, such as cable ducts or ventilation channels, which could be used to climb up, the measurement must be taken from the top edge of those elements.”
Since we have two small children who will eventually bring friends home to play, we strongly believe that some safety provision is necessary here. Our GC, however, sees no need for action because the window has a lockable handle. I have already informed the GC that we would report this issue to the responsible building authority if necessary, so they can verify whether this is compliant (we have built under an exemption procedure, so the building application has not yet been reviewed in detail). Based on the Ministry’s recommendation, I am quite confident that the authority will agree with our expert.
Now to my question: who pays for the additional safety measure (assuming the building authority requires it)?
From a brief search, I found fairly good glass railings (since our bathroom window faces the street, we want the railing to be as discreet as possible, e.g., no bars or similar) for about 500 euros. Including installation, I expect the total cost would not exceed 1,000 euros.
In my view, it’s simple: I purchased a house that complies with legal requirements. If the GC’s planning does not meet these standards and requires rework, they should cover the cost. The GC (or our site manager), on the other hand, argues that if the building authority demands the railing, it was simply overlooked in the planning and therefore not included in the fixed price. If they had known the railing was needed, the price would have been higher, meaning we should bear the cost.
I consider that unreasonable; otherwise, fixed prices are pointless. As a layperson, I assume that the fixed price guarantees a house that meets legal standards. Otherwise, the GC could plan anything and later—if it turns out the structure is unsafe, violates the zoning plan, or is otherwise incorrect—increase the price by whatever amount is necessary to fix the planning mistake...
What’s your opinion?
we are building our house with a general contractor (GC) and have agreed on a fixed price.
In the bathroom, we have a window with a sill height of 1.12 m (3 ft 8 in) finished floor level (FFL), which is partially located above the bathtub and a small shelf (between the bathtub and the exterior wall), on the right side in the picture.
Both I and our expert noticed that according to the building regulations (Hessen), parapet or railing heights must be at least 80 cm (31.5 inches), measured either from finished floor level (which is complied with here) or from any steps, platforms, or similar climbing aids located in front of it (which is not the case here due to the bathtub and shelf). Although we have lockable handles on the upper floor window, our expert says an additional safety measure is required, for example, the installation of a (glass) railing similar to those used on French balconies.
This is also reflected in the recommendations for enforcement of the Hessian Building Code issued by the Ministry of Economic Affairs (marginal note 35.3.1):
“The height of the parapet is generally measured from the top edge of the finished floor to the top edge of the window sill or another fixed parapet-like element, excluding the window frame. If there are elements in front of the parapet, such as cable ducts or ventilation channels, which could be used to climb up, the measurement must be taken from the top edge of those elements.”
Since we have two small children who will eventually bring friends home to play, we strongly believe that some safety provision is necessary here. Our GC, however, sees no need for action because the window has a lockable handle. I have already informed the GC that we would report this issue to the responsible building authority if necessary, so they can verify whether this is compliant (we have built under an exemption procedure, so the building application has not yet been reviewed in detail). Based on the Ministry’s recommendation, I am quite confident that the authority will agree with our expert.
Now to my question: who pays for the additional safety measure (assuming the building authority requires it)?
From a brief search, I found fairly good glass railings (since our bathroom window faces the street, we want the railing to be as discreet as possible, e.g., no bars or similar) for about 500 euros. Including installation, I expect the total cost would not exceed 1,000 euros.
In my view, it’s simple: I purchased a house that complies with legal requirements. If the GC’s planning does not meet these standards and requires rework, they should cover the cost. The GC (or our site manager), on the other hand, argues that if the building authority demands the railing, it was simply overlooked in the planning and therefore not included in the fixed price. If they had known the railing was needed, the price would have been higher, meaning we should bear the cost.
I consider that unreasonable; otherwise, fixed prices are pointless. As a layperson, I assume that the fixed price guarantees a house that meets legal standards. Otherwise, the GC could plan anything and later—if it turns out the structure is unsafe, violates the zoning plan, or is otherwise incorrect—increase the price by whatever amount is necessary to fix the planning mistake...
What’s your opinion?
When a child reaches the age where they can climb into the bathtub and have the strength to open a window from a difficult position, they should also be mature enough to have a conversation about it beforehand. Just like you talk to them about not climbing on chairs to open windows.
Our children have been riding their bikes alone in the neighborhood since around the age of 3/4. Of course, at that age, you still check on them every 10 minutes to see what they are doing. But as a parent, you can no longer keep up with protecting the child from all dangers.
A neighbor’s child has always been very physically advanced and was already riding a bike at 2.5 years. At that age, you could tell their mind wasn’t as developed as their body. They just zoomed off from their parents and ended up standing on the main road.
Our children have been riding their bikes alone in the neighborhood since around the age of 3/4. Of course, at that age, you still check on them every 10 minutes to see what they are doing. But as a parent, you can no longer keep up with protecting the child from all dangers.
A neighbor’s child has always been very physically advanced and was already riding a bike at 2.5 years. At that age, you could tell their mind wasn’t as developed as their body. They just zoomed off from their parents and ended up standing on the main road.
BananaJoe schrieb:
But I can already see that the situation isn’t as clear-cut as I thought an hour ago. Even though it seems odd to me that I should pay for planning errors by the general contractor despite having a fixed price... Please, let’s not forget the saying about not looking a gift horse in the mouth, and let’s not expect the same standards from a general contractor’s basic planning as from a private client receiving chief architect treatment in a private room according to HOAI. If I were an arbitrator, I would advise moderation and calling a truce here.
BananaJoe schrieb:
As I said, the screed is drying right now. I don’t think any changes can or will be made to the windows themselves (although I don’t know how complex your proposal would be). My suggestion would mean reordering the window from a single-leaf, one-piece, tilt-and-turn window (DIN standard) left-hinged to a single-leaf, two-part, tilt-and-turn window (DIN standard) right-hinged, with a fixed lower section—let’s say about the bottom 20cm (8 inches)—so that the fall protection height is ensured up to the operable sash. Before installation, the additional costs for this change would serve as an example of a reasonable contribution by the general contractor towards an amicable settlement.
Abandon the delusion that the contractor owes you a free redesign as a final result—on that point, I fully agree with @Jann St.
Musketier schrieb:
Our children have been riding their bikes alone in the residential area since they were 3 or 4 years old. Of course, at that age, you still check on them every 10 minutes. But as a parent, you can’t possibly keep up anymore to protect the child from all dangers. I belong to the generation from before seat belts were widespread; accordingly, the ordeal of ever having to write the word “bike helmet” in a dictation has thankfully passed me by as well...
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Apart from the, in my opinion, exaggerated fear, children eventually get old enough.
Have the window installed as tilt-only. Remove the handle. Turn it into a fixed pane right away (probably too late?).
You still have another window in that room. What is all the worry about? There are so many solutions in the 50-100€ range...
Have the window installed as tilt-only. Remove the handle. Turn it into a fixed pane right away (probably too late?).
You still have another window in that room. What is all the worry about? There are so many solutions in the 50-100€ range...
H
hampshire20 Sep 2021 18:37BananaJoe schrieb:
I had already informed the general contractor that, if necessary, we would report this issue to the relevant building authority so they can check whether everything is in order. That would be a complete own goal if it delays the inspection and moving in. The authority also does not give any recommendation on who pays.
BananaJoe schrieb:
Who covers the cost of the additional measure? If you want to argue, it will cost you money and nerves, and there is a high chance you will have to pay anyway. In addition, a dispute could delay your move-in date if the inspection doesn’t take place. So it’s not a very pragmatic solution, even if your emotions initially call for it.
Since you don’t want the solution with the lockable valve, I would try to negotiate a deal with the general contractor.
We had a very similar bathroom situation on our last build with a difficult general contractor. I bought and installed a lockable handle myself for just a few bucks (2001). It really wasn’t worth a dispute. Our son was climbing on garage roofs at age 5—the process of raising children is ongoing: encouraging, setting boundaries, letting go, allowing them to gain experience, and building trust. Our boys are now 20 and 22 and still keep us on our toes.
M
Myrna_Loy20 Sep 2021 19:01The bathtub does not extend fully in front of the window, but only about 20-30 cm (8-12 inches) beyond the corner. The window would have to be fully open, and it would also be necessary to climb onto the edge of the bathtub.
We have lockable window handles everywhere above the ground floor. There are also child safety locks available that do not require a key and use a special push mechanism.
We have lockable window handles everywhere above the ground floor. There are also child safety locks available that do not require a key and use a special push mechanism.
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