ᐅ Offer for Ytong Prefabricated House Kit / Construction on Existing Basement
Created on: 31 Jul 2021 12:05
G
Gurkenkönig
Hello everyone, I’m new here 🙂,
We are currently in the process of demolishing an old prefabricated house on a plot we purchased, down to the basement, and plan to build a new house on top of that basement.
We are very interested in a Ytong kit house, but unfortunately, we have no clear idea about the price range. Therefore, we would really appreciate it if someone knowledgeable could roughly assess it.
The construction is planned to take place in southern Baden-Württemberg.
Here is the offer we received:
House dimensions 10 x 9m (33 x 29.5 ft) + extension 5.5 x 4m (18 x 13 ft) (living area estimated at 150m² (1,615 ft²))
Gable roof 38°
Knee wall 1m (3.3 ft) with 2 dormers over 2/3 of the length
KfW 55 standard
--> Concrete slab for the conservatory extension
--> Stainless steel chimney
--> Exterior walls of the living floor + ceiling
--> Roof structure including covering, insulation, and drainage
--> Attic ladder + stairs from ground floor to upper floor
--> PVC windows + roller shutters (€34,500)
Total price €139,000 (of course, almost everything is planned as self-construction, except for complex steps such as roof structure, ceilings, concrete slab... with some assistance)
Can anyone estimate whether this is cheap or expensive?
Would it be possible to get a shell construction (structure only) without self-construction for this price?
If you have any questions, feel free to ask 🙂
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
We are currently in the process of demolishing an old prefabricated house on a plot we purchased, down to the basement, and plan to build a new house on top of that basement.
We are very interested in a Ytong kit house, but unfortunately, we have no clear idea about the price range. Therefore, we would really appreciate it if someone knowledgeable could roughly assess it.
The construction is planned to take place in southern Baden-Württemberg.
Here is the offer we received:
House dimensions 10 x 9m (33 x 29.5 ft) + extension 5.5 x 4m (18 x 13 ft) (living area estimated at 150m² (1,615 ft²))
Gable roof 38°
Knee wall 1m (3.3 ft) with 2 dormers over 2/3 of the length
KfW 55 standard
--> Concrete slab for the conservatory extension
--> Stainless steel chimney
--> Exterior walls of the living floor + ceiling
--> Roof structure including covering, insulation, and drainage
--> Attic ladder + stairs from ground floor to upper floor
--> PVC windows + roller shutters (€34,500)
Total price €139,000 (of course, almost everything is planned as self-construction, except for complex steps such as roof structure, ceilings, concrete slab... with some assistance)
Can anyone estimate whether this is cheap or expensive?
Would it be possible to get a shell construction (structure only) without self-construction for this price?
If you have any questions, feel free to ask 🙂
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
K1300S schrieb:
If I remember correctly, the Ytong house is planned individually, Yes and no. A "kit" in the sense of putting together a parts list of palletized blocks and other miracle mixes is indeed feasible for a non-standard house. However, the advantage of a proper kit—meaning an associated set of plans and pre-designed details—is obviously not present in this case. Such a "kit very light" would be better described as a "package offer for all the structural shell building materials," and in this regard, I don’t see the kit house providers having an advantage over any ordinary building materials suppliers.
K1300S schrieb:
but I still imagine that as an apprentice mason in the first year, one shouldn’t necessarily choose the increased difficulty of "building on an existing basement." The increased difficulty here, in my view, lies more in the planning on top of the existing cellar than in the masonry work itself: after all, that’s basically just a slab with a stairwell opening. We have examples here both of a prefab house on an existing cellar https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/fertighaus-ueber-alten-bestandskeller-bauen.24346/ and two threads regarding house construction using an existing slab https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/einfamilienhaus-meinungen-zu-unserem-entwurf.25622/ and https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/einfamilienhaus-entwurfsplanung-bitte-um-feedback.26428/ as well as a structure on a ten-year abandoned shell basement https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/rohbaukeller-fundament-steht-10-jahre.33055/ and a build on a cellar underneath a house that had burnt down https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundstueckskauf-auf-dem-vorher-ein-haus-abgebrannt-ist-was-beachten.35388/ and https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/alter-keller-gekauft-traegt-er-nur-holzstaender-oder-auch-massiv.36418/, as well as a house considered ready for demolition whose cellar is planned to be reused https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/abriss-und-neubau-keller-hanglage.37591/ (and of course the original poster is welcome to use my contact details under "Information" in my profile). As can be seen from browsing the tips above, the topic is more complex than it might initially seem.
K1300S schrieb:
Aside from that, the time effort is obviously enormous, and you have to be able to afford that. The decline in work speed due to fatigue is massively underestimated.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
The fatigue-related decrease in work speed is massively underestimated.Some just think, well, the IKEA shelf with poor instructions worked out fine anyway. 😀G
Gurkenkönig4 Aug 2021 08:23Hello everyone, thank you very much for the many responses. Yes, I planned the house myself in advance, the architect drew the plans, and they were forwarded to the kit house company.
I don’t necessarily see the advantage only in sourcing the materials but also in the assistance and guidance with more complex issues and coordination.
Thank you very much for the links, I will take a look at them 🙂
I don’t necessarily see the advantage only in sourcing the materials but also in the assistance and guidance with more complex issues and coordination.
Thank you very much for the links, I will take a look at them 🙂
Gurkenkönig schrieb:
Yes, I planned the house in advance, and the architect drew the plans.Spot the mistake. (contradictio in adiecto)Gurkenkönig schrieb:
Yes, I planned the house in advance, the architect did the drawings Architects rarely draw themselves, except in very small offices. Why don’t you show here what you have planned?
Gurkenkönig schrieb:
I don’t necessarily see the advantage here just in terms of materials, but also in the assistance and guidance with more complex topics and coordination. Here is another reading recommendation: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/erfahrungen-mit-bausatzhaus-aus-neopor-o-ae.14531/page-24#post-510590
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
First post, since I usually only browse here, but as we are currently building a kit house using Ytong and are already quite advanced in the process, I wanted to reply to you. For context: I am building in northern Germany and don’t know the prices in Baden-Württemberg exactly, but since there is generally a north-south price difference, I would guess it’s probably more expensive for you than for me. Our house is slightly larger in floor area but comparable, and like you, we have an extension that is a bit bigger (double garage 6x9m (20x30 ft)).
Our kit house with the standard Ytong package cost about €150,000. We have done a lot of the work ourselves and certainly saved a lot, but as 11ant mentioned, the actual amount is much lower than what you’re being quoted, and the time you spend on the construction site and on other tasks should not be underestimated. I don’t want to discourage you, I would do it again because it is a challenge and especially fun when you see what you have accomplished.
There are a few things in your offer that I don’t quite understand, so I would strongly recommend reviewing them again, because there are considerable additional costs hidden there that substantially reduce your savings. The basic Ytong kit house package includes the enclosed shell. The intermediate floor is delivered and set up together with you (you need to provide 3 helpers), the roof frame is delivered and erected by a specialist company, and doors and windows are delivered and installed by a professional company (except roof windows). Everything else is just material deliveries. However, this package usually doesn’t include materials you will need, such as mortar for the first layers of blocks, concrete for the ring beam (floor and walls), lintels, membranes, roof and floor insulation, etc. These are all extra costs, usually listed separately in the overall cost calculation. I also doubt that a concrete slab is included in the kit house price—it’s typically listed only as a calculation item in the total cost, as is the roof covering. Actually, you only get rain gutters, roof tiles, and roof windows with the kit. We had these installed by a roofer, including the cladding of a bay window, but excluding interior finishing, and that alone cost us about €40,000. Additional costs you need to consider include scaffold rental, which usually is needed for much longer than planned because you tend to overestimate your progress, and also external factors are hard to control. If your floor takes 8 weeks instead of 4, or your roofing package arrives after 8 weeks instead of 2, or the carpenter can only start later, a few weeks and a few thousand euros more quickly add up. When the floor is set, a crane is used, which is included up to a certain size. If a larger crane is needed, that’s at your expense.
Many of these things were unknown to us at first, and Ytong didn’t point them out either, so you easily stumble over them. Also, in the cost estimates I have seen from other self-builders, extra costs for the different trades are often seriously underestimated, either because they don’t have a firm quote from a contractor or because they base their numbers on a minimal setup (for example, a bathroom fully bought from a hardware store), which naturally makes the figures look smaller and more appealing. On the other hand, for items included directly in the kit, it’s much like turnkey construction—you often get many extra costs after an initial appraisal (ceiling outlets, additional windows, doors, etc.). Keep this in mind.
Also, discard the illusion that you will get much help. The services are either clearly defined as not included or vaguely so. For example, you get a foreman who sets the first course of blocks on the ground floor (only the outer walls). If you then have questions or need help, they charge about €600 per day. On the upper floor, I believe only the corner stones of the first course are set (as stated in the contract). Building supervision doesn’t mean someone visits once a week to check progress and advise you on what to do next or what to consider. Usually, planners, not contractors, are involved. For example, when we asked, many details about execution were unclear—only the final drawing was shown, and the shell is not just about stacking the Ytong blocks. Finding out these details usually doesn’t cost money, but it takes a lot of time, as does organizing further materials and coordinating other trades, since Ytong kit house construction doesn’t cover these—you have to manage that yourself.
So, that was a lot—maybe a bit scattered 😄
In summary, regarding your question:
Go over the offer carefully again. What is actually included, and what is explicitly excluded? Talk to your Ytong kit house representative and define these points clearly. The clearer they break down the costs upfront, the fewer surprises you will have later. Be aware that you won’t be able to think of everything, and usually, after signing, you lose contact with the representative and only communicate with a planner who wasn’t involved in the original discussions. If you proceed with the contract, have them commit to maximum delivery and response times and make sure every extra you want from the start is listed. The planning drawings on which the offer is based are usually not part of the contract.
If you keep all this in mind and check local prices for the quantities you need (my raw materials supplier was very helpful here), and add the costs for the necessary trades (roofer, etc.), then compare this with 1-5 other offers from building partners (turnkey), which you should obtain. Comparing the shell alone only makes sense if you ask a construction company for separate quotes for each trade.
You will certainly save money, but you will pay with a lot of your time. I did it because we wanted to do some things, like electrical work, ourselves and already had known contractors for several parts (plumbing and roof frame, for example).
I hope this helps a bit. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
Best regards
Our kit house with the standard Ytong package cost about €150,000. We have done a lot of the work ourselves and certainly saved a lot, but as 11ant mentioned, the actual amount is much lower than what you’re being quoted, and the time you spend on the construction site and on other tasks should not be underestimated. I don’t want to discourage you, I would do it again because it is a challenge and especially fun when you see what you have accomplished.
There are a few things in your offer that I don’t quite understand, so I would strongly recommend reviewing them again, because there are considerable additional costs hidden there that substantially reduce your savings. The basic Ytong kit house package includes the enclosed shell. The intermediate floor is delivered and set up together with you (you need to provide 3 helpers), the roof frame is delivered and erected by a specialist company, and doors and windows are delivered and installed by a professional company (except roof windows). Everything else is just material deliveries. However, this package usually doesn’t include materials you will need, such as mortar for the first layers of blocks, concrete for the ring beam (floor and walls), lintels, membranes, roof and floor insulation, etc. These are all extra costs, usually listed separately in the overall cost calculation. I also doubt that a concrete slab is included in the kit house price—it’s typically listed only as a calculation item in the total cost, as is the roof covering. Actually, you only get rain gutters, roof tiles, and roof windows with the kit. We had these installed by a roofer, including the cladding of a bay window, but excluding interior finishing, and that alone cost us about €40,000. Additional costs you need to consider include scaffold rental, which usually is needed for much longer than planned because you tend to overestimate your progress, and also external factors are hard to control. If your floor takes 8 weeks instead of 4, or your roofing package arrives after 8 weeks instead of 2, or the carpenter can only start later, a few weeks and a few thousand euros more quickly add up. When the floor is set, a crane is used, which is included up to a certain size. If a larger crane is needed, that’s at your expense.
Many of these things were unknown to us at first, and Ytong didn’t point them out either, so you easily stumble over them. Also, in the cost estimates I have seen from other self-builders, extra costs for the different trades are often seriously underestimated, either because they don’t have a firm quote from a contractor or because they base their numbers on a minimal setup (for example, a bathroom fully bought from a hardware store), which naturally makes the figures look smaller and more appealing. On the other hand, for items included directly in the kit, it’s much like turnkey construction—you often get many extra costs after an initial appraisal (ceiling outlets, additional windows, doors, etc.). Keep this in mind.
Also, discard the illusion that you will get much help. The services are either clearly defined as not included or vaguely so. For example, you get a foreman who sets the first course of blocks on the ground floor (only the outer walls). If you then have questions or need help, they charge about €600 per day. On the upper floor, I believe only the corner stones of the first course are set (as stated in the contract). Building supervision doesn’t mean someone visits once a week to check progress and advise you on what to do next or what to consider. Usually, planners, not contractors, are involved. For example, when we asked, many details about execution were unclear—only the final drawing was shown, and the shell is not just about stacking the Ytong blocks. Finding out these details usually doesn’t cost money, but it takes a lot of time, as does organizing further materials and coordinating other trades, since Ytong kit house construction doesn’t cover these—you have to manage that yourself.
So, that was a lot—maybe a bit scattered 😄
In summary, regarding your question:
Go over the offer carefully again. What is actually included, and what is explicitly excluded? Talk to your Ytong kit house representative and define these points clearly. The clearer they break down the costs upfront, the fewer surprises you will have later. Be aware that you won’t be able to think of everything, and usually, after signing, you lose contact with the representative and only communicate with a planner who wasn’t involved in the original discussions. If you proceed with the contract, have them commit to maximum delivery and response times and make sure every extra you want from the start is listed. The planning drawings on which the offer is based are usually not part of the contract.
If you keep all this in mind and check local prices for the quantities you need (my raw materials supplier was very helpful here), and add the costs for the necessary trades (roofer, etc.), then compare this with 1-5 other offers from building partners (turnkey), which you should obtain. Comparing the shell alone only makes sense if you ask a construction company for separate quotes for each trade.
You will certainly save money, but you will pay with a lot of your time. I did it because we wanted to do some things, like electrical work, ourselves and already had known contractors for several parts (plumbing and roof frame, for example).
I hope this helps a bit. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
Best regards
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