Hello everyone
We are currently taking the next steps toward building our own home. We have looked at several prefabricated houses and spoken with sales consultants from various providers. Based on this, we have created a top 5 list. Now I want to contact these 5 companies with our floor plan and the standards we want. This way, I hope the list will be reduced by 2-3 providers after receiving the first offers.
In my inquiry, I want to roughly outline what we have in mind. KFW55, KFW40, or KFW40+ is not yet very important—it will be one of these standards. Our floor plan does not differ much from the standard layouts offered by prefab house suppliers. Something like a simple 8x10 meter (26x33 feet) rectangular shape... To be able to compare the 5 offers reasonably, I want them all to be as similar as possible. Therefore, I would like to specify the heating system.
Now the question is, what is the right choice… I assume this is partly a matter of philosophy? The options are an air-to-water heat pump, an air-to-air heat pump, or a ground-source (geothermal) heat pump. I assume most have one of these three systems combined with solar panels on the roof.
My first thought was this: an air-to-air heat pump, since we would also have an automatic ventilation system in the house, making manual airing less or unnecessary. However, I have learned that all KFW-certified houses are so well insulated that they almost always have automatic ventilation. So this argument is no longer valid. Nevertheless, I still find the air-to-air heat pump interesting. We also want to install a wood stove in the living room. With an air-to-air heat pump, the indoor air is circulated throughout the house, so I could benefit from the wood stove’s heat everywhere, right? Perhaps even with heat recovery, which is usually included.
Another advantage of the air-to-air heat pump would be that if it ever gets too warm, we could install a fixed air conditioning unit somewhere in the house, and the whole house would benefit. The built-in cooling systems in these heat pumps usually aren’t as effective as promised.
Is it true that an air-to-air heat pump cannot provide domestic hot water? Then a second system would be needed just for hot water, which means more costs, two systems to maintain, and more space taken up. In the forum, I mostly see air-to-water heat pumps mentioned, probably combined with underfloor heating. That seems to be the most popular system. Is there a particular reason for this?
Geothermal heating combined with a heat pump seems to be the most efficient. But then I would also have underfloor heating, right? We actually didn’t want underfloor heating, but as I’m writing this, I’m starting to convince myself toward geothermal or air-to-water heat pumps…
How did you make your decision and why? Somehow, I don’t fully trust the salespeople, since they want to sell what makes more money, right? And since I’m not very technical in this area, I’m hoping to benefit from your experience.
Best regards Andreas_79
We are currently taking the next steps toward building our own home. We have looked at several prefabricated houses and spoken with sales consultants from various providers. Based on this, we have created a top 5 list. Now I want to contact these 5 companies with our floor plan and the standards we want. This way, I hope the list will be reduced by 2-3 providers after receiving the first offers.
In my inquiry, I want to roughly outline what we have in mind. KFW55, KFW40, or KFW40+ is not yet very important—it will be one of these standards. Our floor plan does not differ much from the standard layouts offered by prefab house suppliers. Something like a simple 8x10 meter (26x33 feet) rectangular shape... To be able to compare the 5 offers reasonably, I want them all to be as similar as possible. Therefore, I would like to specify the heating system.
Now the question is, what is the right choice… I assume this is partly a matter of philosophy? The options are an air-to-water heat pump, an air-to-air heat pump, or a ground-source (geothermal) heat pump. I assume most have one of these three systems combined with solar panels on the roof.
My first thought was this: an air-to-air heat pump, since we would also have an automatic ventilation system in the house, making manual airing less or unnecessary. However, I have learned that all KFW-certified houses are so well insulated that they almost always have automatic ventilation. So this argument is no longer valid. Nevertheless, I still find the air-to-air heat pump interesting. We also want to install a wood stove in the living room. With an air-to-air heat pump, the indoor air is circulated throughout the house, so I could benefit from the wood stove’s heat everywhere, right? Perhaps even with heat recovery, which is usually included.
Another advantage of the air-to-air heat pump would be that if it ever gets too warm, we could install a fixed air conditioning unit somewhere in the house, and the whole house would benefit. The built-in cooling systems in these heat pumps usually aren’t as effective as promised.
Is it true that an air-to-air heat pump cannot provide domestic hot water? Then a second system would be needed just for hot water, which means more costs, two systems to maintain, and more space taken up. In the forum, I mostly see air-to-water heat pumps mentioned, probably combined with underfloor heating. That seems to be the most popular system. Is there a particular reason for this?
Geothermal heating combined with a heat pump seems to be the most efficient. But then I would also have underfloor heating, right? We actually didn’t want underfloor heating, but as I’m writing this, I’m starting to convince myself toward geothermal or air-to-water heat pumps…
How did you make your decision and why? Somehow, I don’t fully trust the salespeople, since they want to sell what makes more money, right? And since I’m not very technical in this area, I’m hoping to benefit from your experience.
Best regards Andreas_79
Andreas_79 schrieb:
In the forum, I mostly see air-to-water heat pumps mentioned, so probably underfloor heating. That seems to be the most popular system. Is there a specific reason for this? If you choose a heat pump, this is usually the best option in terms of price/performance, which is why it is also the most popular system or combination, not just here.
And regarding underfloor heating... hmm, never without it again. It is simply much more comfortable and pleasant, and in most cases, it is surprisingly also cheaper to operate than other heating methods (in continuously occupied homes).
A
Andreas_7926 Jul 2021 13:50@K1300S, Yes, the plot has been purchased and we are registered in the land registry 🙂
I had the same concern. Basically, I see the starting point as the same for everyone.
Let’s say, for example, I want to build a KfW40+ house.
Then the walls and insulation must meet that standard. All providers will offer that. Whether one has this in the wall and the other has something else shouldn’t matter for now.
We also want to specify the roof shape, so that is the same to start with. I expect the insulation will end up being similar across all providers.
Then there are only minor specifications from our side.
I think we will do part of the interior finishing ourselves, like floors, walls, and similar things, so almost the second-to-last stage of finishing.
If I tell them all now:
This is the floor plan I want with KfW40+ standard,
then there shouldn’t be much difference anymore, except in the areas of technical systems, electrical, heating. If one uses PVC window sills and another uses marble, of course there will be differences that will show in the price.
Basically, I already have some figures that are probably optimistic, but by looking at the offers I can see what each provider includes as standard and what matches our wishes.
Another example: We roughly requested a quote from a prefab house builder. He explained everything nicely, the price was good, but he said for us the standard upstairs is carpet and downstairs laminate. We definitely want hardwood flooring and I already counted that as an extra cost.
But if a company wants to sell us a house and in 2021 their standard is carpet and laminate, that’s not acceptable and we won’t buy from them. That already shows they are 20 years behind the times and who knows what else I might not even be able to judge.
@Sahitaz, thanks, I hadn’t considered the dry air, but that makes sense.
Best regards,
Marc
I had the same concern. Basically, I see the starting point as the same for everyone.
Let’s say, for example, I want to build a KfW40+ house.
Then the walls and insulation must meet that standard. All providers will offer that. Whether one has this in the wall and the other has something else shouldn’t matter for now.
We also want to specify the roof shape, so that is the same to start with. I expect the insulation will end up being similar across all providers.
Then there are only minor specifications from our side.
I think we will do part of the interior finishing ourselves, like floors, walls, and similar things, so almost the second-to-last stage of finishing.
If I tell them all now:
This is the floor plan I want with KfW40+ standard,
then there shouldn’t be much difference anymore, except in the areas of technical systems, electrical, heating. If one uses PVC window sills and another uses marble, of course there will be differences that will show in the price.
Basically, I already have some figures that are probably optimistic, but by looking at the offers I can see what each provider includes as standard and what matches our wishes.
Another example: We roughly requested a quote from a prefab house builder. He explained everything nicely, the price was good, but he said for us the standard upstairs is carpet and downstairs laminate. We definitely want hardwood flooring and I already counted that as an extra cost.
But if a company wants to sell us a house and in 2021 their standard is carpet and laminate, that’s not acceptable and we won’t buy from them. That already shows they are 20 years behind the times and who knows what else I might not even be able to judge.
@Sahitaz, thanks, I hadn’t considered the dry air, but that makes sense.
Best regards,
Marc
R
RotorMotor26 Jul 2021 14:06Andreas_79 schrieb:
Now, if a company wants to sell us a house and offers carpet and laminate flooring as standard in 2021, that’s just not acceptable, and we won’t buy from them. That already shows they are 20 years behind, and who knows what else might be outdated that I can’t even assess.It’s interesting to select a home builder based on the floor coverings, which are usually not even included by default—I haven’t heard of that before either.A
Andreas_7926 Jul 2021 14:17@RotorMotor, that is now quite exaggerated and unnecessary.
What I mean is that if a company still uses something simple from the 1990s as their standard in 2021, then there are probably countless other things in their standard package that are outdated.
I have to say that with other providers, such features were already of higher quality as standard, like marble window sills and similar details.
Since I only have a limited view of certain aspects, I have to figure out how to narrow down providers, and one way I find is to say if provider X does not keep up with the times, then I look at provider Y.
But basically, no provider has been chosen yet; only some have already been ruled out. Unfortunately, this is showing that rather the lower-cost providers are being eliminated, and I tend to lean toward Schwörerhaus, Weberhaus, Hanse Haus. That is the result of my current work. The equipment features have simply helped me with this.
Best regards,
Andreas
What I mean is that if a company still uses something simple from the 1990s as their standard in 2021, then there are probably countless other things in their standard package that are outdated.
I have to say that with other providers, such features were already of higher quality as standard, like marble window sills and similar details.
Since I only have a limited view of certain aspects, I have to figure out how to narrow down providers, and one way I find is to say if provider X does not keep up with the times, then I look at provider Y.
But basically, no provider has been chosen yet; only some have already been ruled out. Unfortunately, this is showing that rather the lower-cost providers are being eliminated, and I tend to lean toward Schwörerhaus, Weberhaus, Hanse Haus. That is the result of my current work. The equipment features have simply helped me with this.
Best regards,
Andreas
Personally, I would see it more like @RotorMotor. It could be a provider’s strategy to initially offer a lower price and therefore include rather basic or outdated features as standard. However, this does not mean they cannot offer higher-end options, or that their workmanship is worse or more expensive.
As @K1300S wrote:
A floor plan, KfW40+ standard, and heating system specifications alone are not enough. There will be differences in windows, electrical fittings, outdoor taps, and who knows what else...
In my opinion, there are two options:
1.) Request X offers based on rough guidelines and go with the one you feel best about
2.) Hire an architect, design a house, then go to X providers with this plan, request X comparable offers, and make a systematic decision
As @K1300S wrote:
If you really want to compare the offers with each other, they need to be the same, meaning you must specify ALL details. But probably very few general contractors will agree to that, and you will likely need technical support (an architect) for this.
A floor plan, KfW40+ standard, and heating system specifications alone are not enough. There will be differences in windows, electrical fittings, outdoor taps, and who knows what else...
In my opinion, there are two options:
1.) Request X offers based on rough guidelines and go with the one you feel best about
2.) Hire an architect, design a house, then go to X providers with this plan, request X comparable offers, and make a systematic decision
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