ᐅ Architects or Pre-Fabricated House Cost Estimation and Next Steps
Created on: 9 Jul 2021 23:19
M
mk_2021
Hello everyone,
We have been looking into building a house for quite some time now. The more we learn, the more overwhelmed we feel. We have a plot of land in NRW under consideration. Naturally, we want to build a house on it.
1) Our first step was to consult an architect. Overall, the appointment was very pleasant, and we felt comfortable. However, the harsh reality hit us with the first cost estimate:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) at €2,600/sqm (approx. $275/sq ft) for reasonable quality): €480,000
Basement (110 sqm (1,184 sq ft) at €1,700/sqm (approx. $180/sq ft)): €190,000
Double garage: €40,000
Fireplace/stove: €15,000
Kitchen: €40,000
Additional construction costs (e.g., architect, structural engineer, soil survey, MEP planner) (25% of construction costs including garage, etc.): €180,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, some hedges, terrace): €50,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): €12,000
= €1,000,000
These figures are rough estimates only. But €1 million (about $1.05 million) excluding the land already feels quite steep. Are these values realistic?
2) After processing that, we approached a prefabricated house manufacturer and also looked into a traditional builder, Viebrockhaus.
The prefab house company showed strong sales skills in our initial meeting. A rough cost estimate was as follows:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) reasonable quality): €390,000
Basement (€70,000 + €10,000 for excavation disposal; €600–750/sqm (approx. $65–80/sq ft) without finishing, +€15,000 for basic finishing): €100,000 with very basic finishing
Double garage: €30,000
Fireplace/stove: €10,000
Kitchen: €20,000
Additional costs/miscellaneous (e.g., permits, earthworks): €30,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, very basic): €15,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): not specified, so we assume €12,000 again
= €607,000
That sounds more reasonable. Could this be accurate?
The above data is meant as a first orientation. Of course, it’s possible to save money on things like the basement, but this should be comparable.
3) Price-wise, the prefab house clearly looks much better. So we pursued that further. We were advised to get plans and offers from 3–5 prefab house companies to compare. That naturally means multiple sales meetings, plus architectural consultations. Others said it’s better to hire an independent architect first and then get cost estimates from 3–5 prefab house manufacturers. We hadn’t realized that was possible. The architect in point 1) was not enthusiastic about the prefab house idea and it felt like he took it as a personal insult to the architect’s profession.
What do you think is the best way to proceed? Are there any recommendations for prefab or traditional builders in NRW known for good value for money?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Marin
We have been looking into building a house for quite some time now. The more we learn, the more overwhelmed we feel. We have a plot of land in NRW under consideration. Naturally, we want to build a house on it.
1) Our first step was to consult an architect. Overall, the appointment was very pleasant, and we felt comfortable. However, the harsh reality hit us with the first cost estimate:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) at €2,600/sqm (approx. $275/sq ft) for reasonable quality): €480,000
Basement (110 sqm (1,184 sq ft) at €1,700/sqm (approx. $180/sq ft)): €190,000
Double garage: €40,000
Fireplace/stove: €15,000
Kitchen: €40,000
Additional construction costs (e.g., architect, structural engineer, soil survey, MEP planner) (25% of construction costs including garage, etc.): €180,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, some hedges, terrace): €50,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): €12,000
= €1,000,000
These figures are rough estimates only. But €1 million (about $1.05 million) excluding the land already feels quite steep. Are these values realistic?
2) After processing that, we approached a prefabricated house manufacturer and also looked into a traditional builder, Viebrockhaus.
The prefab house company showed strong sales skills in our initial meeting. A rough cost estimate was as follows:
Construction costs (185 sqm (1990 sq ft) reasonable quality): €390,000
Basement (€70,000 + €10,000 for excavation disposal; €600–750/sqm (approx. $65–80/sq ft) without finishing, +€15,000 for basic finishing): €100,000 with very basic finishing
Double garage: €30,000
Fireplace/stove: €10,000
Kitchen: €20,000
Additional costs/miscellaneous (e.g., permits, earthworks): €30,000
Garden (e.g., pathways, paving, very basic): €15,000
Connection fees (e.g., electricity, gas, telephone): not specified, so we assume €12,000 again
= €607,000
That sounds more reasonable. Could this be accurate?
The above data is meant as a first orientation. Of course, it’s possible to save money on things like the basement, but this should be comparable.
3) Price-wise, the prefab house clearly looks much better. So we pursued that further. We were advised to get plans and offers from 3–5 prefab house companies to compare. That naturally means multiple sales meetings, plus architectural consultations. Others said it’s better to hire an independent architect first and then get cost estimates from 3–5 prefab house manufacturers. We hadn’t realized that was possible. The architect in point 1) was not enthusiastic about the prefab house idea and it felt like he took it as a personal insult to the architect’s profession.
What do you think is the best way to proceed? Are there any recommendations for prefab or traditional builders in NRW known for good value for money?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Marin
nordanney schrieb:
This also creates comparability between companies (whether prefabricated house manufacturers or regular general contractors). However, not across the board: comparing masonry and timber general contractors always involves a particular form of comparing apples and oranges. You should always clarify which construction method (masonry or timber) you want to use first, and only once that decision is made should you issue tenders or inquiries. Then, comparisons can also cross categories if they are not based on the same foundation.
Gerddieter schrieb:
One thing I can advise: quickly distance yourself from this exact architect before signing any contracts, as he doesn't seem open to your questions, wishes, or interests... No, @mk_2021, beware of adopting the personal architect trauma of @Gerddieter. You can only be thankful if an architect – and as I have said, not all of them are equally skilled in both masonry and timber – openly reveals their shortcomings early on. This can actually mean that you feel well taken care of by this architect and that you can therefore settle the decision about the construction method.
Zaba12 schrieb:
Anyway, I’m more on the architect’s side and would say: as an initial indication, take the average value and familiarize yourself with the topic so you can rely on your own knowledge and calculations rather than on figures that seem lower. I would even say that the sum of the less favorable prices best corresponds to the concept of a "conservative estimate." ;-)
ypg schrieb:
First of all, I would clarify: solid construction can be a prefabricated house, but generally is not. Viebrockhaus is not a prefabricated house manufacturer.
[...]
If you are not planning or wanting an innovative highlight, you usually go to a general contractor or a local construction company.
[...]
Solid construction and prefabricated building differ mainly in the wall materials: prefabricated houses are assembled in 2–3 days, while solid construction is built with masonry. As you rightly pointed out a few lines above, the distinction “prefabricated vs. solid” is misleading. The question of whether you approach a general contractor directly (as a client) or, in my opinion better, indirectly (as a client of the architect, who you do not exclude from the tendering process) also arises without explicitly wanting a custom designer home—and it is another matter whether a complex site demands a freelance architect.
ypg schrieb:
Regarding the architect: it can be said that the estimate may increase by 10–20% during construction. The accuracy of the architect’s estimate largely depends on how currently experienced they are in practice. Architects who once had experience but have been teaching at a university for twenty years tend to misestimate the most. In short: don’t trust any architect whose last house was built back when the Deutsche Mark was in use. They base their assumptions about cost increases on tables and leave it to their housekeeper to know what butter costs in Hamburg.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Hello everyone,
First of all, wow. Thank you for the great and mostly constructive feedback.
Thanks a lot for that. Strangely, we hadn’t been aware of this third option until now. It sounds logical, though. We plan to build in postal code area 41*, meaning Mönchengladbach and surroundings. If anyone here has good experiences with architects or GCs in this area, we would appreciate private message recommendations.
Apparently, the approach of going to a “good” prefab builder and letting them handle everything is not optimal. Our initial meeting at Meisterstück was actually very positive—though of course that was also with a “salesperson.”
Feel free to ask me directly instead of openly in the forum 😉 The answer is actually quite simple: I just don’t know! For example, I have no idea how much to deduct from the €50,000 (50,000 euros) for the garden to get to the basic package offered by the prefab builder. Without a concrete offer, that's hard for me. As mentioned above, we will also visit another architect to see if we feel better there. This decision does not only depend on price but also on other “factors.”
We did give those guidelines. The more or less only suggestion to keep the budget under control was to reduce the square meters. Simple and effective, but we would have appreciated a few alternatives.
Even after further research, my impression is that this is more a philosophical question. We don’t mind and wanted to let the price decide. But since the prices for both construction methods seem to be about the same, we will go with what, for example, the architect prefers and where we feel comfortable.
Exactly that 😉 Now we just need to find THE right architect. Recommendations are welcome.
First of all, wow. Thank you for the great and mostly constructive feedback.
11ant schrieb:
And now I come in as the confusing third party and say: hiring an independent architect is good, but the cost estimate is nonsense. With the architect—who you should definitely keep involved through construction management—you prepare a tender, to which general contractors can also submit bids. You should decide well before the tender whether you want to build a masonry (brick or block) or timber (wood) house. There are quite significant differences (except in quality range, which is similarly broad for both). However, most architects are not equally familiar with both construction types.
NRW is a large region, and the area where a construction company has a reputation is only about the size of an administrative district. There is a forum section “Experiences with construction company XYZ,” where several regions and companies have already been discussed.
nordanney schrieb:
...Of course it’s possible. The advantage is that you don’t get a standard house but something tailored to you from the start. This also makes it easier to compare the companies (whether a prefab house builder or a regular general contractor)...
Thanks a lot for that. Strangely, we hadn’t been aware of this third option until now. It sounds logical, though. We plan to build in postal code area 41*, meaning Mönchengladbach and surroundings. If anyone here has good experiences with architects or GCs in this area, we would appreciate private message recommendations.
Apparently, the approach of going to a “good” prefab builder and letting them handle everything is not optimal. Our initial meeting at Meisterstück was actually very positive—though of course that was also with a “salesperson.”
Zaba12 schrieb:
I’m more wondering why the original poster doesn’t smooth out the two estimates beforehand (which you can clearly see for example in the kitchen prices and the outdoor area costs) and then wonders why the figures differ.
Anyway, I lean towards the architect’s estimate. As a first indication, I’d take the average and get into the topic so you can rely on your own knowledge and calculations, rather than going with the lower numbers just because they look better.
Feel free to ask me directly instead of openly in the forum 😉 The answer is actually quite simple: I just don’t know! For example, I have no idea how much to deduct from the €50,000 (50,000 euros) for the garden to get to the basic package offered by the prefab builder. Without a concrete offer, that's hard for me. As mentioned above, we will also visit another architect to see if we feel better there. This decision does not only depend on price but also on other “factors.”
Myrna_Loy schrieb:
I agree. You can reach a middle ground if you keep control when selecting finishes and give the architect clear budget guidelines. 🙂
We did give those guidelines. The more or less only suggestion to keep the budget under control was to reduce the square meters. Simple and effective, but we would have appreciated a few alternatives.
11ant schrieb:
However, not crosswise: comparing masonry and timber general contractors is always a particular kind of comparing apples and oranges. You should clarify which material you want to build with (masonry or timber), and only when that decision is made should you prepare the tender or inquiries. Then the comparison should also be cross-checked if it’s not based on the same foundation.
Even after further research, my impression is that this is more a philosophical question. We don’t mind and wanted to let the price decide. But since the prices for both construction methods seem to be about the same, we will go with what, for example, the architect prefers and where we feel comfortable.
11ant schrieb:
No, @mk_2021, beware of adopting @Gerddieter’s personal architect trauma. The architect—as I already said—not all of them are equally skilled in masonry and timber construction anymore—you can be grateful if they openly reveal their limitations early on. That can even mean you feel well taken care of by this architect and then make the construction method decision easier.
Exactly that 😉 Now we just need to find THE right architect. Recommendations are welcome.
mk_2021 schrieb:
We are planning to build in the postal code area 41*, that is Mönchengladbach and its surroundings. If anyone has good experience with architects or general contractors (GC) in this area, we would appreciate any recommendations via private message (PM). You should find useful information in the relevant forum section.
As a new member, you would need to add your email address to your profile to receive private messages.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
J
JuliaMünchen12 Jul 2021 00:39We chose to have an architect design the house up to the detailed construction plans and then continued with a relatively regional solid construction company from that stage onward. However, since we already knew exactly what we wanted, we could have saved the architect’s fees. If your architect quotes a project budget of 1 million, they will receive a corresponding fee. So, if you don’t want a highly customized house (for example, extremely modern Bauhaus style, timber-framed house, or old villa), I would recommend visiting model home exhibitions and going through builders’ catalogs (both prefab and solid construction companies) to get a sense of the style you want. Look for floor plans, visit as many open houses as possible, schedule an appointment with a kitchen specialist, and also talk to a landscaper. Visiting a bathroom showroom is also worthwhile because there are many potential cost drivers in that area. All of this takes some time, but it is not only enjoyable, it also helps you get more accurate quotes from builders before signing any contracts for exactly what YOU want, rather than only for what is included in the standard scope of work (e.g., standard beech, steel, or oak stairs; chimney yes or no; hardwood or laminate floors; standard fittings or not; garage or carport; smart home systems or basic electrical installation; standard windows or custom sizes).
With your wish list in hand, approach builders in the mid-to-upper price range. They all have in-house architects who can design your house much more affordably than an independent architect. The architect included in our builder’s price after the detailed planning phase was far better than our independent architect, who otherwise designs amazing Bauhaus villas, simply because the in-house architect thought much more along with us and really listened to what we wanted.
Prices are highly individual depending on taste and the lot, but in general, unexpected cost drivers for us were additional fees (especially earthworks—make sure to include a large buffer here) and electrical work (check exactly what is included). Since bathrooms and hardwood floors were important to us, the extra costs there did not shock us anymore. The chimney and kitchen were cheaper than expected (I personally find 40,000 to be way too high; depending on appliances, a nice kitchen with an island, lacquered fronts, and a natural stone countertop easily costs around 25,000 if you don’t overdo it).
Regarding companies, I can only share my experience from the Munich area and Bavaria. Here, Weberhaus and Hanse, both prefab builders, often receive very good feedback. We had very good discussions with sales representatives from Rötzer, Danhaus, and Haas, although the latter two often seemed to offer rather basic specifications. Okal Haus, Bien-Zenker, and Allkauf Haus have had extremely poor references here and had terrible contact persons at their model home parks, but this can vary regionally. We actually found our current builder through online research and then held a few meetings. A friend found their builder recommended by their parents’ neighbors, and another simply asked people in their new development and made a decision based on that.
With your wish list in hand, approach builders in the mid-to-upper price range. They all have in-house architects who can design your house much more affordably than an independent architect. The architect included in our builder’s price after the detailed planning phase was far better than our independent architect, who otherwise designs amazing Bauhaus villas, simply because the in-house architect thought much more along with us and really listened to what we wanted.
Prices are highly individual depending on taste and the lot, but in general, unexpected cost drivers for us were additional fees (especially earthworks—make sure to include a large buffer here) and electrical work (check exactly what is included). Since bathrooms and hardwood floors were important to us, the extra costs there did not shock us anymore. The chimney and kitchen were cheaper than expected (I personally find 40,000 to be way too high; depending on appliances, a nice kitchen with an island, lacquered fronts, and a natural stone countertop easily costs around 25,000 if you don’t overdo it).
Regarding companies, I can only share my experience from the Munich area and Bavaria. Here, Weberhaus and Hanse, both prefab builders, often receive very good feedback. We had very good discussions with sales representatives from Rötzer, Danhaus, and Haas, although the latter two often seemed to offer rather basic specifications. Okal Haus, Bien-Zenker, and Allkauf Haus have had extremely poor references here and had terrible contact persons at their model home parks, but this can vary regionally. We actually found our current builder through online research and then held a few meetings. A friend found their builder recommended by their parents’ neighbors, and another simply asked people in their new development and made a decision based on that.
mk_2021 schrieb:
We are planning to build in the postal code area 41*, which means Mönchengladbach and the surrounding area. If anyone has good experiences with architects or general contractors here, we would appreciate recommendations via private message. We have just started planning our single-family house with RFCV from Meerbusch (just try googling). We chose this architect after speaking with about 10 homeowners, all of whom were satisfied with the collaboration.
Additionally, I received a recommendation from another homeowner for Schrötgens from Mönchengladbach. However, this option was out for us because it was too far away (we are building in Duisburg).
We mainly researched architects through Houzz and Google.
K
k-man202113 Jul 2021 20:47We have previously built with an architect and are now starting our second house project. I can’t comment on prefab house architects, but for independent architects, we identified four key selection criteria:
- Does the architect build in the style you want (obviously)
- Do you trust them, can you have open discussions, and do they bring new ideas (an emotional aspect – they should design something very personal for you, that makes you happy not only now but also in 10 to 20 years!)
- Do they have up-to-date experience in building homes in your segment (do they know the costs and timeline in detail)
- How do construction management and supervision work with them (how often is someone on site – this might not be relevant if you work with a general contractor)
You need to prioritize these criteria yourself ;-)
Looking back at our first build, we would have preferred a different architect. Although we got along well, they contributed very few new ideas, many decisions had to be made on the fly because their scheduling dependencies were completely off, and they lacked enough experience with contractors and costs.
- Does the architect build in the style you want (obviously)
- Do you trust them, can you have open discussions, and do they bring new ideas (an emotional aspect – they should design something very personal for you, that makes you happy not only now but also in 10 to 20 years!)
- Do they have up-to-date experience in building homes in your segment (do they know the costs and timeline in detail)
- How do construction management and supervision work with them (how often is someone on site – this might not be relevant if you work with a general contractor)
You need to prioritize these criteria yourself ;-)
Looking back at our first build, we would have preferred a different architect. Although we got along well, they contributed very few new ideas, many decisions had to be made on the fly because their scheduling dependencies were completely off, and they lacked enough experience with contractors and costs.
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