ᐅ Additional Costs for Residential Units

11ant schrieb:

Yes, Yvonne went a bit too far. But I didn’t want to argue about it last night, especially since exceptions like these are a complex topic that would derail the discussion here.

Probably not so much. Overall, you also have to admit that costs are usually meant to be saved through the owner-driven DIY (TE), which is why everything should only be prepared. A tent roof is simply not optimal or suitable without factual information (e.g., house height, building permit / planning permission, parking area). In the end, we are still talking about an attic, and yes, now I’m even suggesting there might be some greed involved. Ultimately, the certificate of occupancy is also being swept under the rug.

ypg schrieb:

I’m not being unfriendly; I have provided you with factual answers.

It’s interesting that you see it that way. As for me, I am still waiting for answers (preferably "factual") to my outstanding questions so I can form a clear opinion on whether my plans are feasible or not.

Here is a summary for myself: Conversion of an attic space with a pyramid roof. The gathered opinions/facts/problems:
1.) Insulation is required. Apparently no problem. At least I haven’t read anything suggesting it’s not possible. Regarding my question about whether this is particularly difficult or expensive for a pyramid roof, and whether an additional ceiling could/should be installed (to avoid insulating the roof apex), I haven’t received any response so far. I therefore assume that this can be done without unusual extra costs. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me. Perhaps with a rough estimate of how much more this kind of insulation costs compared to insulating a regular ceiling beneath a ventilated roof. That would help to assess whether it is reasonable or not.
2.) It must be lockable. No problem, this is ensured by a stairwell.
3.) A second emergency exit must be available. From what I understand, this is fairly easy to achieve if at least one roof window meets certain size and location requirements. Both seem feasible to plan from what I have seen so far. I briefly searched online and found various reports on how to implement this (e.g., "WSA R8 from Roto" as a keyword).

@ypg or Yvonne or whatever your name is: Sorry... but where exactly is your argument that such a conversion won’t work?
You accuse me of being resistant to advice. Please explain yourself more clearly so I can understand what exactly about the plan is not feasible or pointless.
Much of what you have said so far doesn’t sound very factual. Your recent accusation of "greed" fits right in. It almost seems like you switch to attack mode whenever someone doesn’t accept your opinion as absolute truth but instead asks further questions to understand and make an informed decision.
For me, the question is simply: what do you hope to achieve with this behavior? Here come people with little experience naturally asking "naive" questions. Then you can answer them courteously and objectively to help them understand. Or can you really blame them for sticking to their plans until it has been clearly demonstrated that they are not viable?

Felix85 schrieb:

Then please clarify your statement so I can understand what exactly about the plan is unfeasible or pointless.

I never wrote or claimed that.

Felix85 schrieb:

As for me, I am still waiting for answers (preferably factual) to my open questions in order to evaluate whether my plans are feasible or not.

The house building forum and also Yvonne are not Wikipedia.

Felix85 schrieb:

So far, no answer has been given.

Unanswered questions do happen; you do not have the right to label missing replies as rude.
In principle, a definite statement can only be made when facts are presented: site location and zoning plan, plot size for cost estimation, etc. Your architect is the primary contact for price determinations.

Felix85 schrieb:

I am summarizing for myself: Conversion of an attic with a hipped roof. The collected opinions/facts/issues:
1.) It needs to be insulated. Apparently not a problem. At least, I have not read anything suggesting it is not feasible. When I asked whether it is particularly difficult or expensive with a hipped roof and if an additional ceiling could/should be installed (to avoid insulating the roof peak), there was no answer so far. Therefore, I assume that it is possible without extraordinary additional costs.

Just the hipped roof itself will cost you significantly more compared to a gable roof—we also don’t know whether you plan to build it with rafters or trusses—much more than you could ever save by concentrating wet room plumbing lines. Then adding an attic to save a handful of insulation rolls is a Pyrrhic victory at best. Gathering parameters and aspects like a squirrel won’t build a proper house. Better start with proper planning instead of optimization.

---

https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/

To get back to the original question: if you only install the connections going upwards (water, electricity, heating?), it probably won’t cost that much at first, I think. I would rather ask how much more expensive the entire planning and the shell construction (building envelope, parking spaces, etc.) will be because of this. Will the house be built taller to have knee walls on the upper floor?

How far does the attic need to be constructed during building to meet KfW40 standards? Insulation?

Whether you add an insulated ceiling under the roof or insulate the entire roof up to the top probably won’t make a big difference in costs. But without detailed planning on what the attic will actually look like, it’s hard to say.

ypg schrieb:

Unanswered questions happen, but you don’t have the right to label a lack of responses as unfriendly.

Sorry, but at this level, it just doesn’t make sense to keep talking with you. It wasn’t the absence of answers that I called unfriendly, but your condescending judgment that I am resistant to advice. Please at least read the replies before denying anyone the right to anything.
In my opinion, it’s not very productive with you: you have your opinion but no arguments (or you don’t want to share them with me). Of course, I accept that. But on that basis, I don’t think either of us benefits from the exchange.
If you still want to explain how you arrived at your position, feel free to do so—I’m happy to listen. Otherwise: let’s drop it.

11ant schrieb:

Just the hip roof itself will cost you more compared to a gable roof.

I know that. I read that you can expect about 20% extra cost compared to a gable roof. That’s worth it to me, as I find the gable roof personally very unattractive and, given the otherwise simple and straightforward design of the building (“square, practical, good”), I’d like to add a more distinctive accent with the roof. Hip roofs with that pitch are quite rare in my area.

11ant schrieb:

By the way, we don’t know yet if you plan to build with rafters or trusses.

I can’t answer that yet, because I don’t know the differences and respective advantages and disadvantages. Thanks for the hint—I will look into it and might come back with some basic questions.

11ant schrieb:

… significantly more than you could ever save with concentrated wet room plumbing runs.

As I said earlier: It’s less about calculating it against each other and huge savings. I just wanted to ask for tips and tricks on how to keep costs down when planning multiple residential units. I don’t expect to get anything for free or three for the price of two or anything like that. I just want to plan sensibly and cost-effectively where possible (and where it fits with the aesthetic preferences).

11ant schrieb:

Picking parameters and aspects like a squirrel won’t get you a proper house. Better start with planning instead of optimization.

My floor plan design is running in parallel. The questions here and your answers are still very important to me. In the end, I get an overall picture through the combination of all information, tricks, and hints. This might seem erratic or disconnected to you now, but I’m not only discussing this here—I’m also talking with experienced friends, acquaintances, developers, architects, building authorities, and so on.
So, all the information shared here is very helpful for me to better understand another piece of the puzzle. Maybe it’s a bit detailed, but I’m quite comfortable working this way to approach a largely unfamiliar subject.

Ralle90 schrieb:

If you only put the hookups upstairs (water, electricity, heating?), I don’t think it will cost too much initially.

Thanks. That reassures me somewhat.

Ralle90 schrieb:

I would rather ask how much more expensive the entire planning and shell construction (building envelope, parking spaces, etc.) will be.

I’m still clarifying that—especially regarding the parking spaces. For example, if more than three parking spaces are required for three units, that would really mess up my plan.
It’s my responsibility to ask about that.

Ralle90 schrieb:

Will the house be built taller so that the upper floor has a knee wall?

I haven’t planned for that yet. The idea is as follows:
The ground floor and first floor are full stories. Then the hip roof with an expanded attic without an additional knee wall (this is the current plan but might change).
According to my (admittedly amateur) calculations, that means a ridge height of about 9.70 m (32 feet). Up to 10.5 m (34.4 feet) should be no problem on the plot.

Ralle90 schrieb:

How far does the attic need to be constructed regarding KfW40? Insulation?

That was basically one of my earlier questions as well. So: Is there a fixed regulation on what needs to be done to qualify for subsidies for a unit with KfW40+ energy standard? Are hookups, insulation, and airflow filters (and other usual building standards) sufficient? Or does the unit have to be completely finished, so that the first tenant can move in on day one after construction?
Since I plan to complete much of the attic myself over the next few years (tiles, install bathroom, etc.) before it goes to the child, it’s important for me to know what standards KfW requires to approve subsidy for a unit. So far I haven’t found anything concrete from official sources. Has anyone had experience with this?

Ralle90 schrieb:

Whether you install an insulated ceiling under the roof or insulate the entire roof up to the top probably won’t make a big difference cost-wise.

Okay, thanks. That’s enough of a rough idea for me for now. I can plan with that and I’m curious what my architect will say later.
Personally, I find a cathedral ceiling in the attic very appealing. Adding a ceiling was just an idea if it would make insulation significantly easier.