Hello everyone!
I’ve mentioned before that we plan to install a wooden privacy fence along the side of our property bordering the neighbor. The plan was for rounded fence panels, 180cm (71 inches) tall at the highest point and the same width.
The local DIY store gave me a quote for the materials, including delivery. Normally, this store is not particularly expensive.
The total for materials for 19.5m (64 feet) of fencing came to over 1000€. The panels themselves were about 500€, with the rest being the “miscellaneous parts.” One costly item is the wood stain planned (three times 4L (1 gallon) of Bondex long-lasting protective stain) for nearly 200€. The advisor also said we need to use H-posts and set them in concrete. He quoted a 40kg (88 lbs) bag of screed concrete for each post.
I know that here in northern Germany it’s probably better to set the posts in concrete, but do I really need 400kg (880 lbs) of concrete for a 19.5m (64 feet) wooden fence? It seems crazy to me.
With L-brackets, screws, posts, etc., the entire project came to just over 1000€, and then we still have to assemble it ourselves — and we’re not sure if we can manage that. I had originally thought of using the quick-setting concrete that only needs watering, but I expected 2–3 bags would be enough.
Do you think the quote for materials is realistic? I’m a bit shocked.
Now we’re considering alternatives. For example, I could order a mixed package of “natural hedge bouquet” with 160 plants online for about 280€, which would green up the whole garden and cost only about a quarter of what the fence would. However, the noise insulation to the neighbor’s property would probably be weaker than with a wooden fence (anyone with experience here?), and we would have to wait a few years until the plants grow tall enough to screen the view of the metal shed. But honestly, I’d almost prefer to invest a four-figure amount in greenery rather than in a fence.
What would you recommend?
I’ve mentioned before that we plan to install a wooden privacy fence along the side of our property bordering the neighbor. The plan was for rounded fence panels, 180cm (71 inches) tall at the highest point and the same width.
The local DIY store gave me a quote for the materials, including delivery. Normally, this store is not particularly expensive.
The total for materials for 19.5m (64 feet) of fencing came to over 1000€. The panels themselves were about 500€, with the rest being the “miscellaneous parts.” One costly item is the wood stain planned (three times 4L (1 gallon) of Bondex long-lasting protective stain) for nearly 200€. The advisor also said we need to use H-posts and set them in concrete. He quoted a 40kg (88 lbs) bag of screed concrete for each post.
I know that here in northern Germany it’s probably better to set the posts in concrete, but do I really need 400kg (880 lbs) of concrete for a 19.5m (64 feet) wooden fence? It seems crazy to me.
With L-brackets, screws, posts, etc., the entire project came to just over 1000€, and then we still have to assemble it ourselves — and we’re not sure if we can manage that. I had originally thought of using the quick-setting concrete that only needs watering, but I expected 2–3 bags would be enough.
Do you think the quote for materials is realistic? I’m a bit shocked.
Now we’re considering alternatives. For example, I could order a mixed package of “natural hedge bouquet” with 160 plants online for about 280€, which would green up the whole garden and cost only about a quarter of what the fence would. However, the noise insulation to the neighbor’s property would probably be weaker than with a wooden fence (anyone with experience here?), and we would have to wait a few years until the plants grow tall enough to screen the view of the metal shed. But honestly, I’d almost prefer to invest a four-figure amount in greenery rather than in a fence.
What would you recommend?
Sound can be reflected and may not always be obvious to non-experts.
Uphill, there is a residential building with six apartments. From exactly one apartment, we can hear everything when they are on their balcony. It sounds as if they are standing on our terrace. We cannot hear the balconies below or those next to it.
If someone is celebrating in their yard on that street, I sit upright in bed, but their neighbor does not hear anything.
You should just get some advice.
How about your house? What about openings of the decentralized ventilation toward the neighbor? Window joints, etc.?
And talk to your neighbors.
Uphill, there is a residential building with six apartments. From exactly one apartment, we can hear everything when they are on their balcony. It sounds as if they are standing on our terrace. We cannot hear the balconies below or those next to it.
If someone is celebrating in their yard on that street, I sit upright in bed, but their neighbor does not hear anything.
You should just get some advice.
How about your house? What about openings of the decentralized ventilation toward the neighbor? Window joints, etc.?
And talk to your neighbors.
P
pagoni20201 Jun 2021 12:15Schimi1791 schrieb:
How is this supposed to work in practice? Selling the house and buying or building a new one? How would you explain this to the ‘subsequent buyers’? As far as I know, such issues with neighbors should be addressed. Otherwise, it could be considered fraudulent misrepresentation (?).
Additionally, the new neighborhood would also be uncertain. As I wrote, this would be the very last option. Originally, it wasn’t even my idea!
But if something truly makes me feel awful permanently and I prioritize my health and well-being above all else, what would you suggest as a viable solution? As I said, AFTER exhausting all other options.
Options: new build, purchase, renting, etc., always under the premise that I feel permanently unwell here!!! Or should one just endure it for life?
As I said, it’s not nice, but what is the alternative AFTER all other attempts? There would be no deception, and certainly no malicious intent. I’m moving for personal reasons, that’s that.
Where to then? Only where this problem does not occur, which could be farther away or a remote location where others don’t prefer to live because of accessibility, etc.
Again, what would be the alternative if nothing else works?
Getting sick?
Before moving out, there is first an escalation!
1) Conversation. Some tips have already been shared. Aim for consensus, and if necessary, initiate (joint) soundproofing measures.
2) Keep a record, address every disturbance.
3) Report noise complaints to the local authorities. If the noise occurs even on Sundays (quiet hours!), this can be an effective leverage.
From step 3 onward, the friendship is definitely over, but what is the greater evil?
4) Lawyer, expert assessment, court, or sale.
1) Conversation. Some tips have already been shared. Aim for consensus, and if necessary, initiate (joint) soundproofing measures.
2) Keep a record, address every disturbance.
3) Report noise complaints to the local authorities. If the noise occurs even on Sundays (quiet hours!), this can be an effective leverage.
From step 3 onward, the friendship is definitely over, but what is the greater evil?
4) Lawyer, expert assessment, court, or sale.
guckuck2 schrieb:
Before moving out, escalation comes first!
1) Talk. Suggestions for this have already been given. Aim for consensus, if necessary initiate (joint) soundproofing measures.
2) Keep a record, address every disturbance.
3) Report noise complaints to the local authorities. If it’s even on Sundays (quiet hours!), that gives you leverage.
From step 3 onwards, you definitely won’t remain friends, but what is the greater evil?
4) Lawyer, expert assessment, court, or selling the property. Sometimes it’s even public holidays. Father’s Day, Sundays—basically when people have time off. :/
But I don’t know if going down the escalation route would actually benefit my health. What good is it if we start a neighborhood feud and I end up with stomach aches every time I come home because I’m afraid of running into them on the street? That’s not for me; I can’t handle that well.
We also eventually left the last neighborhood with such problems—meaning we moved. That was a rental property, the situation was more extreme, and it certainly contributed to how sensitive I am to this now.
However, I’m not sure if I really have any legal grounds. Maybe the music isn’t “too loud,” but I still find it disturbing. I don’t exactly know where the threshold for normal room volume is. They also have the right to use their garden. Playing loud music in the garden is, in my opinion, generally inconsiderate. Sound spreads beyond the property boundaries—that’s well known—and you then knowingly subject others to it. This probably doesn’t bother everyone, but it’s somewhat selfish to impose your taste in music on others whether they want it or not. At least, I wouldn’t do that.
Schimi17911 Jun 2021 12:43pagoni2020 schrieb:
...
There is no deception involved, certainly no fraudulent intent. I am moving for personal reasons, period.
...However, courts might view this differently:"In the sale of a property, the seller’s duty to disclose information about 'problematic neighbors' exists only if the buyer asks about it or in cases of extremely hostile or harassing neighbor behavior that the buyer would not expect.
This was ruled by the Munich Regional Court I in its judgment dated July 12, 2012, case number 23 O 5974/10."
Therefore, if noise disturbance is concealed despite the buyers asking about it, there could (!) be grounds for fraudulent misrepresentation. Although noise disturbance is certainly subjective.
The wife of our previous owners apparently had issues with the neighbors’ poultry and partially took legal action against the neighbors successfully. Ultimately, they moved away. We do not notice any "disturbance" at all.
kati1337 schrieb:
...
But I don’t know if I actually have any legal recourse.
...“In court and on the high seas, we are entirely in God’s hands.”M
motorradsilke1 Jun 2021 17:05kati1337 schrieb:
These are even official holidays. Father’s Day, Sundays – basically whenever “people have time off.” :/
But I’m not sure if escalating the situation would be good for my health. What good would it do if we start a neighborhood feud and I end up with stomach aches every time I go home because I’m afraid of running into them on the street? That’s not something I could handle well.
The last time we had such problems with neighbors, we eventually moved away – that was a rental property, the situation was more extreme and likely contributed to my strong reaction now.
However, I’m not sure if I really have any legal grounds. Maybe the music isn’t “too loud,” but I still find it disturbing. I don’t exactly know where the limit for normal room volume is. They also have the right to use their garden. Playing loud music in the garden is, in my opinion, generally inconsiderate. Sound carries beyond property lines, that’s a given, and they knowingly accept that others will hear it. It certainly doesn’t bother everyone, but it’s a bit selfish to force your own taste in music on others whether they like it or not. At least, that’s not something I would do. Of course, you do have legal grounds. Sundays and public holidays are designated quiet days, so playing music is not allowed. All noise should be avoided during these times.
Before considering options like noise barriers or even moving, I would clearly communicate this to them. Of course, start off politely and friendly.
On other days outside of the quiet hours, it depends if others are also bothered. Why not ask your other neighbors? Maybe they’re annoyed too but don’t dare to take action. Together, you could approach the neighbor and find a solution. Perhaps there are specific times when they are at home but you are not.
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