ᐅ Extension and Vertical Addition to a 1965 Existing Building
Created on: 17 Mar 2021 21:31
C
Christian_p
Hello everyone,
my name is Christian, and I have been reading this forum for some time now. Since my plans are becoming more concrete, I am now making my first post.
I have the opportunity to take over my parents' house, and they would continue living there.
The house dates from 1965 but does not offer enough space for all of us, so I have the following ideas, always assuming that the renovation is approved. Of course, I will ask for permission before detailed planning, but for now, I need some help brainstorming.
The house currently has one and a half stories plus a basement. The basement ceiling is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) higher than the garden, and the knee wall on the upper floor is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) high, resulting in a noticeable roof slope.
The ground floor, which would serve as a separate apartment for my parents, currently has a kitchen, pantry, living room, dining room, and bathroom—unfortunately one room too few, so an extension here would be ideal.
If there is going to be an extension, ideally it would be two stories to create an additional room upstairs as a study or guest room. The extension would best be attached to one of the two gable ends (approximately 9 meters (30 feet) long). A timber extension would appeal to me.
However, to ultimately create the desired space for our family of four, an additional story would also be necessary. I am considering either a flat roof or a hipped roof so that another floor with a bathroom and three bedrooms can be added without much increase in height. Currently, there is an attic above the upper floor that is about 2.5 meters (8 feet 2 inches) high in the center, but in its current state, it would only provide space for a bedroom and bathroom at most.
Regardless of approval and structural considerations, I have the following questions:
1. Since the basement protrudes about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) above ground level, a quite high foundation would need to be built for the extension to align with the existing floor level. Would it make sense, for a bit more money, to also have a basement under the extension?
2. Does anyone have experience with how an additional story with a new roof might look in this case? Would the roof with the attic be removed down to the knee wall and rebuilt? That would mean removing all interior walls on the first floor as well?
3. Does anyone possibly have other suggestions on how to realize this?
An extension along the side wall would also be possible, but that would reduce the garden space in the area where it is most used.
For better understanding, I have attached a 3D sketch, although it is not yet fully to scale.
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Christian
my name is Christian, and I have been reading this forum for some time now. Since my plans are becoming more concrete, I am now making my first post.
I have the opportunity to take over my parents' house, and they would continue living there.
The house dates from 1965 but does not offer enough space for all of us, so I have the following ideas, always assuming that the renovation is approved. Of course, I will ask for permission before detailed planning, but for now, I need some help brainstorming.
The house currently has one and a half stories plus a basement. The basement ceiling is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) higher than the garden, and the knee wall on the upper floor is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) high, resulting in a noticeable roof slope.
The ground floor, which would serve as a separate apartment for my parents, currently has a kitchen, pantry, living room, dining room, and bathroom—unfortunately one room too few, so an extension here would be ideal.
If there is going to be an extension, ideally it would be two stories to create an additional room upstairs as a study or guest room. The extension would best be attached to one of the two gable ends (approximately 9 meters (30 feet) long). A timber extension would appeal to me.
However, to ultimately create the desired space for our family of four, an additional story would also be necessary. I am considering either a flat roof or a hipped roof so that another floor with a bathroom and three bedrooms can be added without much increase in height. Currently, there is an attic above the upper floor that is about 2.5 meters (8 feet 2 inches) high in the center, but in its current state, it would only provide space for a bedroom and bathroom at most.
Regardless of approval and structural considerations, I have the following questions:
1. Since the basement protrudes about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) above ground level, a quite high foundation would need to be built for the extension to align with the existing floor level. Would it make sense, for a bit more money, to also have a basement under the extension?
2. Does anyone have experience with how an additional story with a new roof might look in this case? Would the roof with the attic be removed down to the knee wall and rebuilt? That would mean removing all interior walls on the first floor as well?
3. Does anyone possibly have other suggestions on how to realize this?
An extension along the side wall would also be possible, but that would reduce the garden space in the area where it is most used.
For better understanding, I have attached a 3D sketch, although it is not yet fully to scale.
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Christian
Christian_p schrieb:
I would like to know if anyone has done something similar before. [...] If anyone has experience reports with a similar project, Yes, https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/sanierung-bestandsimmobilie-unser-weg-zum-haus.31363/ – in my opinion, that is the most comparable project here as far as I can see back over the past four years.
Christian_p schrieb:
Maybe there are people here who can assess from the plans whether an extension like this is even possible. Sort of. An enthusiast might dare to try, but a professional wouldn’t. Despite the building year, your starting property is a post-war low-cost construction, and your request is demanding. After all, you want to insert a whole additional upper floor between the ground floor and attic, i.e., effectively raise the attic by a whole story. This will be at least challenging with the non-load-bearing wall under the ridge beam; I don’t see the structure being able to support a significant upgrade of the impact sound insulation—let alone underfloor heating. In addition, the extension creates walk-through rooms in a building that is already conceptually unattractive by today’s standards. Any teenager today would roll their eyes and say “Dad, that’s embarrassing” if you told them you planned to pass on the result of this renovation as their future inheritance.
Tassimat schrieb:
But if you see that you also want to move a (load-bearing/stabilizing) wall on the ground floor it will get difficult Even if you probably mean such a wall in the future upper floor, yes, it likely cannot be removed there. And by that, I mean “absolutely not”—not just “not economically feasible”—because: I don’t see it as replaceable here (except possibly by abandoning the converted attic and switching to a truss roof instead). A similarly sized apartment for the grandparents somewhere else (and more accessible than here on the raised ground floor) will be financially more attractive than just the extra cost for inserting a new story here. Calling this project an “extension” is actually an understatement. Have a look at the example linked above by @LordNibbler, showing how a reasonably sized renovation of a somewhat older but technically better-suited property looks in practice. You would have to invest comparatively more money and time here and still end up with a less satisfying result.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
C
Christian_p25 Mar 2021 15:58Hello everyone,
thank you very much in advance for your input.
@Tassimat: Yes, the budget is a target budget that could certainly be increased by about €100,000, but for this project I have imagined around €200,000, after all, it is a renovation and not a new build. If the planning shows that it will be tight, then I will have to reconsider.
Yes, electrical and plumbing work also needs to be done, although the ground floor including windows, electrical, plumbing, and wastewater systems was fully renovated two years ago, including the distribution panel in the basement, etc.
On the ground floor, I do not want to move any load-bearing walls; the exterior wall is already set slightly inward. Or do you mean a different one?
Only a door should be added to the wall facing the study room, which should hopefully be possible.
No exterior insulation has been installed yet. What do you mean by mandatory? When renovating, or when applying for subsidies?
@11ant: Thank you for the link, I will take a closer look at it tonight.
Yes, the starting point is certainly not ideal; the renovation of the ground floor has already shown quite well what is possible or necessary. To be honest, the current upper floor will be more or less demolished and rebuilt along with the new upper floor.
Yes, I need to look more closely at the issue of walk-through rooms on the ground and upper floors. The layout with living room and study is still fine, but a bedroom behind the living room is probably not suitable for everyone.
After all, the idea would be to possibly create three separate apartments in the future if needed.
The option of a separate apartment for the grandparents is rather unlikely; in that case, I would consider other options.
Thanks again for your feedback so far,
I will keep you updated.
thank you very much in advance for your input.
@Tassimat: Yes, the budget is a target budget that could certainly be increased by about €100,000, but for this project I have imagined around €200,000, after all, it is a renovation and not a new build. If the planning shows that it will be tight, then I will have to reconsider.
Yes, electrical and plumbing work also needs to be done, although the ground floor including windows, electrical, plumbing, and wastewater systems was fully renovated two years ago, including the distribution panel in the basement, etc.
On the ground floor, I do not want to move any load-bearing walls; the exterior wall is already set slightly inward. Or do you mean a different one?
Only a door should be added to the wall facing the study room, which should hopefully be possible.
No exterior insulation has been installed yet. What do you mean by mandatory? When renovating, or when applying for subsidies?
@11ant: Thank you for the link, I will take a closer look at it tonight.
Yes, the starting point is certainly not ideal; the renovation of the ground floor has already shown quite well what is possible or necessary. To be honest, the current upper floor will be more or less demolished and rebuilt along with the new upper floor.
Yes, I need to look more closely at the issue of walk-through rooms on the ground and upper floors. The layout with living room and study is still fine, but a bedroom behind the living room is probably not suitable for everyone.
After all, the idea would be to possibly create three separate apartments in the future if needed.
The option of a separate apartment for the grandparents is rather unlikely; in that case, I would consider other options.
Thanks again for your feedback so far,
I will keep you updated.
Christian_p schrieb:
After all, the idea would also be to convert it into three apartments in the future (if necessary). No way. You wouldn’t want the tenants you’d get for those apartments, even as a gift. Or is the location excellent, close to a university?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
C
Christian_p25 Mar 2021 17:45Yes, you are right. One conclusion from this discussion is that I need to reconsider the layout or the extension; it certainly won’t be the last change.
Subject to photos of the property, based on the plans, I think it will be a decent project to spruce up. However, making major changes that turn a boat into an airplane is unlikely to be worthwhile. You shouldn’t just avoid comparing apples to oranges, but also avoid trying to turn apples into oranges.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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