Since I am planning to build a house, I am naturally also considering smart home solutions. As this topic is completely new to me, I first need to do some research. I would therefore like to clarify some basic questions and facts before proceeding. I will simply write down my thoughts as if they were facts and would ask you to correct me where I am wrong 🙂
I want to leave KNX or BUS systems aside for now and focus only on wireless solutions, so please do not discuss which makes more sense or is "better." One step at a time; this is purely about understanding :p
There are many different wireless protocols. Open ones like Z-Wave, ZigBee; "semi-open" like eNet; and proprietary ones like Somfy io.
Somfy has the advantage that everything comes from one source and it should be plug and play. The ideal solution for beginners—you simply put together what you need, install it, and it works right away. The big disadvantage, of course, is that you can only integrate Somfy or Somfy-approved sensors and actuators and are dependent on Somfy continuing to develop new products and supporting the current protocol.
eNet is a protocol from a few premium manufacturers, and as such, the devices are quite expensive. Although it is an open protocol, it is supported by only a few providers and products. So it has the same disadvantage as Somfy: limited selection and dependency on a small number of providers.
The open protocols, which are basically standards, have the advantage of many providers. However, this is also the biggest disadvantage because it’s easy to lose oversight, you end up assembling the whole system yourself without it all coming from one source, and there are likely to be significant differences in quality.
Is this roughly correct?
I want to leave KNX or BUS systems aside for now and focus only on wireless solutions, so please do not discuss which makes more sense or is "better." One step at a time; this is purely about understanding :p
There are many different wireless protocols. Open ones like Z-Wave, ZigBee; "semi-open" like eNet; and proprietary ones like Somfy io.
Somfy has the advantage that everything comes from one source and it should be plug and play. The ideal solution for beginners—you simply put together what you need, install it, and it works right away. The big disadvantage, of course, is that you can only integrate Somfy or Somfy-approved sensors and actuators and are dependent on Somfy continuing to develop new products and supporting the current protocol.
eNet is a protocol from a few premium manufacturers, and as such, the devices are quite expensive. Although it is an open protocol, it is supported by only a few providers and products. So it has the same disadvantage as Somfy: limited selection and dependency on a small number of providers.
The open protocols, which are basically standards, have the advantage of many providers. However, this is also the biggest disadvantage because it’s easy to lose oversight, you end up assembling the whole system yourself without it all coming from one source, and there are likely to be significant differences in quality.
Is this roughly correct?
Wonderful entertainment as always when someone pulls the KNX zealots, especially @Mycraft, out of hiding.
Wireless systems are cheap, already outdated, and basically inherently problematic.
Wired connections are like Jesus, the path to enlightenment.
And a smart home only truly becomes a home when it at least calculates the entire Earth’s weather model and from that determines the preferred scent mixture for the current mood of the homeowner in the automatically preheated sauna.
Absolutely! Total medieval times, that business model is as good as dead :p
P.S. @HansDampf1311, as you yourself note, the cost-benefit ratio of KNX is nowhere near proportional to its actual performance. For the money you’d have to invest in KNX, you could hire a ‘smart’ personal assistant for house management over time who can really do clever things for you.
Build your house first; later you can retrofit wireless or even (HE SAID JEHOVAH!!!!) Wi-Fi sensors and actuators where it makes sense.
Wireless systems are cheap, already outdated, and basically inherently problematic.
Wired connections are like Jesus, the path to enlightenment.
And a smart home only truly becomes a home when it at least calculates the entire Earth’s weather model and from that determines the preferred scent mixture for the current mood of the homeowner in the automatically preheated sauna.
Mycraft schrieb:
A light switch by the door [is] outdated.
Absolutely! Total medieval times, that business model is as good as dead :p
P.S. @HansDampf1311, as you yourself note, the cost-benefit ratio of KNX is nowhere near proportional to its actual performance. For the money you’d have to invest in KNX, you could hire a ‘smart’ personal assistant for house management over time who can really do clever things for you.
Build your house first; later you can retrofit wireless or even (HE SAID JEHOVAH!!!!) Wi-Fi sensors and actuators where it makes sense.
H
HansDampf131111 Mar 2021 10:49apokolok schrieb:
P.S. @HansDampf1311, as you yourself point out, the cost-to-benefit ratio of KNX is not really proportional to the actual performance. For the money you would have to invest in KNX, you could also hire a ‘smart’ house assistant by the hour for years, who can do some truly clever things for you.
Build your house first, then later you can add wireless or even (HE ACTUALLY SAID WIFI!!!!) sensors and actuators as needed. As I said, I see the pros and cons of both systems. I’m quite pragmatic about it, don’t worry. If the cost of KNX is too high for me, I won’t go for it and will gradually upgrade with wireless solutions instead.
bauenmk202011 Mar 2021 11:13The cable that can be eliminated may also bring some advantages, such as fewer chases in the walls. Everything has its pros and cons.
I clearly see the advantage in the wired solution that it can completely "simplify" complex circuits, for example, two-way switching for lights, by routing the light switches via bus cables into the distribution box and wiring them there accordingly. From the distribution box to the lamp, there is then only the power cable, which can be easily controlled by a switching actuator.
I would also welcome continuing this discussion to identify the most promising wireless protocol. Currently, I use EnOcean (either powered permanently or via impulse energy) for the flush-mounted switching actuators. For experimentation, I use Zigbee.
I clearly see the advantage in the wired solution that it can completely "simplify" complex circuits, for example, two-way switching for lights, by routing the light switches via bus cables into the distribution box and wiring them there accordingly. From the distribution box to the lamp, there is then only the power cable, which can be easily controlled by a switching actuator.
I would also welcome continuing this discussion to identify the most promising wireless protocol. Currently, I use EnOcean (either powered permanently or via impulse energy) for the flush-mounted switching actuators. For experimentation, I use Zigbee.
untergasse4311 Mar 2021 11:17Promising for the future is what most market participants agree on. Connected Home over IP could potentially create a stronger pull in this area. Until then, I find EnOcean the most appealing, as it does not operate on the congested 2.4 GHz band.
H
HansDampf131111 Mar 2021 11:23bauenmk2020 schrieb:
The cable that can be saved also brings some advantages, for example fewer chases in the walls. Everything has its pros and cons.
I clearly see the advantage in the cabling solution that it allows you to completely "simplify" complex circuits, such as multi-way switching for lights, by running the light switches via BUS cable into the distribution box and wiring them there accordingly. Then, only the power cable goes to the lamp, which can be easily switched by a relay actuator.Chases are not an issue, at least with the initial installation. As mentioned, it’s built using timber frame construction and has an installation layer on the interior walls.
bauenmk2020 schrieb:
I would also appreciate if we could continue here and identify the most "future-proof" wireless protocol. I currently rely on EnOcean (either mains-powered or via impulse power) for the flush-mounted relay actuators. For experimentation, I use Zigbee.If wireless, I would tend towards Z-Wave; it seems to me to be the most flexible protocol. Where do you see the advantage of EnOcean?
bauenmk2020 schrieb:
The cable that can be omitted might also bring advantages, such as fewer wall chases. Everything has its pros and cons.Too simplistic or just unfinished thinking. The chases are already there—how else would the 230V (230 V) get to the outlets and other devices?It’s similar with light switches. Most homeowners don’t rely 100% on wireless systems (who really does). They still want full control and the ability to physically press the switch if needed. So, there is also a chase for the NYM cable, which can be swapped during the planning phase for any SELV system.