Since I am planning to build a house, I am naturally also considering smart home solutions. As this topic is completely new to me, I first need to do some research. I would therefore like to clarify some basic questions and facts before proceeding. I will simply write down my thoughts as if they were facts and would ask you to correct me where I am wrong 🙂
I want to leave KNX or BUS systems aside for now and focus only on wireless solutions, so please do not discuss which makes more sense or is "better." One step at a time; this is purely about understanding :p
There are many different wireless protocols. Open ones like Z-Wave, ZigBee; "semi-open" like eNet; and proprietary ones like Somfy io.
Somfy has the advantage that everything comes from one source and it should be plug and play. The ideal solution for beginners—you simply put together what you need, install it, and it works right away. The big disadvantage, of course, is that you can only integrate Somfy or Somfy-approved sensors and actuators and are dependent on Somfy continuing to develop new products and supporting the current protocol.
eNet is a protocol from a few premium manufacturers, and as such, the devices are quite expensive. Although it is an open protocol, it is supported by only a few providers and products. So it has the same disadvantage as Somfy: limited selection and dependency on a small number of providers.
The open protocols, which are basically standards, have the advantage of many providers. However, this is also the biggest disadvantage because it’s easy to lose oversight, you end up assembling the whole system yourself without it all coming from one source, and there are likely to be significant differences in quality.
Is this roughly correct?
I want to leave KNX or BUS systems aside for now and focus only on wireless solutions, so please do not discuss which makes more sense or is "better." One step at a time; this is purely about understanding :p
There are many different wireless protocols. Open ones like Z-Wave, ZigBee; "semi-open" like eNet; and proprietary ones like Somfy io.
Somfy has the advantage that everything comes from one source and it should be plug and play. The ideal solution for beginners—you simply put together what you need, install it, and it works right away. The big disadvantage, of course, is that you can only integrate Somfy or Somfy-approved sensors and actuators and are dependent on Somfy continuing to develop new products and supporting the current protocol.
eNet is a protocol from a few premium manufacturers, and as such, the devices are quite expensive. Although it is an open protocol, it is supported by only a few providers and products. So it has the same disadvantage as Somfy: limited selection and dependency on a small number of providers.
The open protocols, which are basically standards, have the advantage of many providers. However, this is also the biggest disadvantage because it’s easy to lose oversight, you end up assembling the whole system yourself without it all coming from one source, and there are likely to be significant differences in quality.
Is this roughly correct?
H
HansDampf13112 Mar 2021 12:41T_im_Norden schrieb:
If you are sure that you actually want a smart home, I would always recommend having an electrical installation suitable for it.
Run everything to the distribution board and lay KNX cables alongside, using 5-core electrical cables.
This way, you can operate everything in the standard way with switches (push buttons), but still have the option to make everything smart if you want.
However, you will then need a larger distribution board and/or sub-distribution boards.
Wireless is always problematic due to range; some smart wireless devices in my house can’t communicate from the first floor to the room below.
Concrete ceilings and closely spaced underfloor heating pipes cause significant interference. As I have emphasized several times, KNX is still an option; I am looking for basic information.
bauenmk20202 Mar 2021 12:57Your key starting points include:
* Sufficient financial resources
* Willingness of your building partner
If you can and want to pay the additional cost and your building partner can (or allows) implementation, then I would follow the approach suggested by @T_im_Norden. You will need to think "from the end" and consider all options during the planning phase.
However, forgetting something and then retrofitting it wirelessly would create a "hybrid" system, possibly even with its own control unit.
@HansDampf1311
I have recently become comfortable with ioBroker. Currently, I only use it to turn a night light on/off and to collect sensor data. I display room temperatures and relative humidity in a visualization.
My EnOcean actuators are still waiting to be integrated, as the EnOcean adapter for ioBroker is not quite stable yet. But Zigbee is working. I’m still struggling with integrating Alexa...
I still need to figure out a solution for retrofitting presence sensors.
* Sufficient financial resources
* Willingness of your building partner
If you can and want to pay the additional cost and your building partner can (or allows) implementation, then I would follow the approach suggested by @T_im_Norden. You will need to think "from the end" and consider all options during the planning phase.
However, forgetting something and then retrofitting it wirelessly would create a "hybrid" system, possibly even with its own control unit.
@HansDampf1311
I have recently become comfortable with ioBroker. Currently, I only use it to turn a night light on/off and to collect sensor data. I display room temperatures and relative humidity in a visualization.
My EnOcean actuators are still waiting to be integrated, as the EnOcean adapter for ioBroker is not quite stable yet. But Zigbee is working. I’m still struggling with integrating Alexa...
I still need to figure out a solution for retrofitting presence sensors.
T
T_im_Norden2 Mar 2021 13:30That was a basic piece of information 🙂.
You don’t have to use KNX even if the cabling is already installed, but by centralizing the wiring in the distribution box, you have full control.
The key is to have a modern electrical installation. If you plan the old conventional “we’ve always done it this way” installation, any smart home features will always feel like an add-on, and you’ll encounter problems during implementation.
For example, if you route the wiring of the light outlets to the distribution box and also wire the switches there, you can:
- Use a standard switch
- Use a push button
- Use a sensor
- Use an automation system
All this without opening up walls, rewiring, or installing anything inside the switch boxes.
You can do exactly what you plan, start with a few things at first, and see what else comes along.
Whether you then use wireless, KNX, other actuators, or none of these doesn’t matter.
If you use a standard wiring from the switch to the lamp, you have to:
- Use bulbs with wireless control
- Install actuators in the light outlet and/or the switch
- Be fixed that a certain switch controls only a certain outlet
- Have larger outlets and boxes to house the actuators
- Not freely decide what the switch should control
You don’t have to use KNX even if the cabling is already installed, but by centralizing the wiring in the distribution box, you have full control.
The key is to have a modern electrical installation. If you plan the old conventional “we’ve always done it this way” installation, any smart home features will always feel like an add-on, and you’ll encounter problems during implementation.
For example, if you route the wiring of the light outlets to the distribution box and also wire the switches there, you can:
- Use a standard switch
- Use a push button
- Use a sensor
- Use an automation system
All this without opening up walls, rewiring, or installing anything inside the switch boxes.
You can do exactly what you plan, start with a few things at first, and see what else comes along.
Whether you then use wireless, KNX, other actuators, or none of these doesn’t matter.
If you use a standard wiring from the switch to the lamp, you have to:
- Use bulbs with wireless control
- Install actuators in the light outlet and/or the switch
- Be fixed that a certain switch controls only a certain outlet
- Have larger outlets and boxes to house the actuators
- Not freely decide what the switch should control
bauenmk20202 Mar 2021 13:54But there is nothing wrong with having the light switches next to the door simply turn the room light on and off. And that reliably for the next 50 years. As a minimum requirement, however, deep flush-mounting boxes should definitely be installed to allow for a wireless actuator to be added if necessary.
T
T_im_Norden2 Mar 2021 13:58If switching is done through conventional wiring, everything speaks against it, as already mentioned above.
@HansDampf1311
You can do it that way, but then it’s just awkward.(c)
This statement, or something similar, has probably been said by everyone who has worked in construction. Whether as a plumber, electrician, or in another role.
Regarding wireless systems:
You can do it that way, but then it’s just awkward.(c)
This statement, or something similar, has probably been said by everyone who has worked in construction. Whether as a plumber, electrician, or in another role.
Regarding wireless systems:
- eNet – boasts the following claim about the system's features on its website: "Over 30 components." Um, 30 components? I have more on just one floor??? And a typical single-family house nowadays often has more than 30 lighting groups. So this system would already reach its limits here.
- You consider Somfy and an all-in-one solution an advantage? You probably didn’t experience the debacle with various pseudo-smart home solutions from major electricity providers, etc. It should be said that any proprietary approach is and remains a dead end.
- EnOcean is a good option, especially for retrofitting. In new builds, only if no other option is possible. Because even here, the selection of components is limited, the tactile feedback is unusual, and there are other restrictions.
- Zigbee is interesting but only quasi-open, with limited compatibility and only minimal interference with standard Wi-Fi from neighbors. So yes, it could work but mainly only for lighting control. Entrusting more important tasks to it is rather suboptimal.
- That leaves only Z-Wave. It is the only truly open system with a range of manufacturer support similar to KNX and a comparable variety of components available. However, as always with wireless, it is uncertain how it will ultimately perform, and concrete ceilings often prove to be a dealbreaker for such solutions.
bauenmk2020 schrieb:It’s always the same thing to read on this topic. A thousand different ways are suggested to patch something together instead of doing it right once. Wireless actuators are and remain a crutch. A light switch by the door is becoming obsolete.
But there’s nothing wrong with light switches next to the door simply turning the room lights on/off. And doing so reliably for the next 50 years. At a minimum, though, deep flush-mounted boxes should definitely be installed, so that a wireless actuator can be installed if needed.