ᐅ Retrofitting Residual Current Devices (RCDs) in Older Electrical Systems
Created on: 27 Jan 2021 20:26
R
rennschnecke
Hello,
as some of you have already read, I am currently renovating one of my 1.5-room apartments. Unfortunately, there is no RCD (residual current device) installed in this apartment. I would of course like to have one added.
Since I don’t really know much about electronics, I wanted to ask for your advice before calling an electrician. As you can see in the photos, there are already outlets with green-yellow protective earth (bathroom, kitchen, partly in the living room), but also outlets without green-yellow protective earth (also in the living room).
The photo with the black/red/gray cable shows a switch.
Now the crucial question: Is it possible to retrofit an RCD without having to break open all the walls? If there were a green-yellow protective earth conductor everywhere, I would have said yes—at least based on what I have read. With a "neutraling" system (i.e., without this protective earth), no.
But how does it look here? I don’t want to tear open the entire walls. If retrofitting is not possible, I would probably install RCD-protected outlets in the bathroom and possibly the kitchen.
Best regards
as some of you have already read, I am currently renovating one of my 1.5-room apartments. Unfortunately, there is no RCD (residual current device) installed in this apartment. I would of course like to have one added.
Since I don’t really know much about electronics, I wanted to ask for your advice before calling an electrician. As you can see in the photos, there are already outlets with green-yellow protective earth (bathroom, kitchen, partly in the living room), but also outlets without green-yellow protective earth (also in the living room).
The photo with the black/red/gray cable shows a switch.
Now the crucial question: Is it possible to retrofit an RCD without having to break open all the walls? If there were a green-yellow protective earth conductor everywhere, I would have said yes—at least based on what I have read. With a "neutraling" system (i.e., without this protective earth), no.
But how does it look here? I don’t want to tear open the entire walls. If retrofitting is not possible, I would probably install RCD-protected outlets in the bathroom and possibly the kitchen.
Best regards
R
rennschnecke28 Jan 2021 20:34Knöpfchen schrieb:
Well, I’m afraid there are more issues.
According to the fuse labels, there is a boiler protected by a 20 A fuse.
There is also an electric stove with only one fuse, also 20 A.
You should definitely get a professional. I will, but I don’t want to be completely clueless when I do.
Yes, there is a 230 V water heater/boiler in the bathroom and a standard stove in the kitchen.
rennschnecke schrieb:
I do the same, but I don’t want to be completely clueless there ;-)
Yes, in the bathroom there is a 230V hot water tank/boiler and in the kitchen a regular stove. If the devices are connected to two different live conductors, that’s no problem. Unless they have been wired with ≤1.5mm² (16 AWG) cable. In that case, the cables would be overprotected.
rennschnecke schrieb:
What exactly does that mean? That likely means two cables have to run through one fuse.
Please consult an electrician. They will probably be able to fix it properly. And please don’t consider doing anything yourself.
R
rennschnecke28 Jan 2021 21:45WingVII schrieb:
Please get an electrician. They will probably be able to make it work correctly. And please don’t try to do anything yourself.For heaven’s sake! I’m the last person who would mess around with electrical work. I’m just curious, so I wanted to ask here first. Let’s see what the electrician says. I hope it can be done without too much effort.
R
rennschnecke2 Feb 2021 22:17So, the certified electrician was here today.
Since I don’t like threads where no one writes anything after a while, here is the response.
A lot was expressed inaccurately in technical terms, sorry about that, but it was already difficult enough for a layperson to follow the conversation for 45 minutes ;-)
The RCD (residual current device) can be retrofitted. For this, some modifications need to be made in the distribution board because otherwise it won’t fit due to too many circuit breakers.
For the small apartment, there are also too many circuit breakers, so he will combine some of them to make it fit.
Currently, the stove is running (I believe) on only one conductor. However, it could probably be connected using four conductors, allowing it to deliver around two-thirds of its power. For 100% capacity, new wiring would have to be installed, which is not worth it.
Regarding the RCD, it just needs to be checked if any circuits are connected or separated. If they are connected, it is a bit more complicated but still possible.
He also took a look next door at the other two-room apartment. Although it is newer/modern, the “electrical condition” is reportedly concerning.
There is an RCD there, but it only switches the water heater, nothing else. Also, the distribution board is so old that it is practically falling apart. The wiring is, let’s say, unconventional. There is apparently a messy jumble of cables in a distribution board that is far too small.
In summary:
Small 1.5-room apartment: install RCD, rearrange/combine circuit breakers, “upgrade” stove connection
2-room apartment: retrofit RCD for all circuits, completely reconnect wiring and organize everything, and install a larger distribution board. This will require some wall demolition.
The quote will be provided in the next few days, but he expects around 800 Euros net. I think this is well spent money on safety, even though I hadn’t budgeted for it and would have preferred to avoid the expense.
I hope I didn’t forget anything. As soon as I have the quote, I can also share the exact scope of work.
Since I don’t like threads where no one writes anything after a while, here is the response.
A lot was expressed inaccurately in technical terms, sorry about that, but it was already difficult enough for a layperson to follow the conversation for 45 minutes ;-)
The RCD (residual current device) can be retrofitted. For this, some modifications need to be made in the distribution board because otherwise it won’t fit due to too many circuit breakers.
For the small apartment, there are also too many circuit breakers, so he will combine some of them to make it fit.
Currently, the stove is running (I believe) on only one conductor. However, it could probably be connected using four conductors, allowing it to deliver around two-thirds of its power. For 100% capacity, new wiring would have to be installed, which is not worth it.
Regarding the RCD, it just needs to be checked if any circuits are connected or separated. If they are connected, it is a bit more complicated but still possible.
He also took a look next door at the other two-room apartment. Although it is newer/modern, the “electrical condition” is reportedly concerning.
There is an RCD there, but it only switches the water heater, nothing else. Also, the distribution board is so old that it is practically falling apart. The wiring is, let’s say, unconventional. There is apparently a messy jumble of cables in a distribution board that is far too small.
In summary:
Small 1.5-room apartment: install RCD, rearrange/combine circuit breakers, “upgrade” stove connection
2-room apartment: retrofit RCD for all circuits, completely reconnect wiring and organize everything, and install a larger distribution board. This will require some wall demolition.
The quote will be provided in the next few days, but he expects around 800 Euros net. I think this is well spent money on safety, even though I hadn’t budgeted for it and would have preferred to avoid the expense.
I hope I didn’t forget anything. As soon as I have the quote, I can also share the exact scope of work.
K
knalltüte2 Feb 2021 23:44and please include Before / After pictures 😎
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