ᐅ Making Sensible Improvements to Existing Satellite/Cable Installations
Created on: 12 Jan 2021 23:47
R
RAL5018
This is the situation I found:
The old cable connection is no longer in use. The wiring ran from the main distribution point (MDP) up to the attic and from there, through a splitter, down to several rooms. The cables and outlets still mostly exist but are no longer connected.
Then a satellite system (quad LNB) was installed, and new cables were run. These cables are embedded in the walls without outlets in the rooms; they just protrude from the walls.
I am currently renovating and want to optimize this setup. I want to keep the satellite connection for now but also keep the option open to switch to cable TV later. Since it’s not easy to lead the satellite cables up to the attic and redistribute them from there (which would probably have been the best solution from the start, I guess), and the new satellite cables are already partially installed at low cost, I would simply install drop outlets (?) there. So far, so good. Or are there good reasons not to install any outlets at all?
If I have 1-2 free connections on the LNB and the cable runs close to the old distribution, I could connect a device to one of the old cable outlets by running a cable via some kind of outlet up to the attic, right? Would I need to modify the outlets in any way, or would that just work?
Can I also route the satellite cable in a room (where it’s not really needed) via a pass-through outlet (?) up to the attic and then star-connect 1-2 more outlets so that only one of them is used at a time? So only one device would ever be plugged in? Or is the mere presence of splitters/pass-through outlets without devices an issue?
Can I even use the same type of distribution for satellite and cable TV? (I understand that cable TV allows multiple devices to operate on a star splitter, while a star wiring with a quad LNB only allows one device to be used at a time.)
I hope it’s clear what I want? I’ll try to describe it differently. I imagine connecting a cable from the LNB to an outlet (pass-through?), and from there another cable running up to the attic (where the cable signal originally came from). The cable upstairs is currently not connected. I would like to connect this to another former cable outlet to be able to use either one or the other outlet.
Also, I still have the option to unplug the LNB and switch back to cable from the other side. Then the cable would probably have to be disconnected directly at the outlet or a terminating resistor would need to be added at the LNB? That’s okay… At this stage, I mainly want to arrange the outlets and cables so that I can easily feed one of the old outlets with one of the remaining LNB channels. Switching upstairs in the attic is not a problem, but of course, it would be nicer if it could work without that.
The old cable connection is no longer in use. The wiring ran from the main distribution point (MDP) up to the attic and from there, through a splitter, down to several rooms. The cables and outlets still mostly exist but are no longer connected.
Then a satellite system (quad LNB) was installed, and new cables were run. These cables are embedded in the walls without outlets in the rooms; they just protrude from the walls.
I am currently renovating and want to optimize this setup. I want to keep the satellite connection for now but also keep the option open to switch to cable TV later. Since it’s not easy to lead the satellite cables up to the attic and redistribute them from there (which would probably have been the best solution from the start, I guess), and the new satellite cables are already partially installed at low cost, I would simply install drop outlets (?) there. So far, so good. Or are there good reasons not to install any outlets at all?
If I have 1-2 free connections on the LNB and the cable runs close to the old distribution, I could connect a device to one of the old cable outlets by running a cable via some kind of outlet up to the attic, right? Would I need to modify the outlets in any way, or would that just work?
Can I also route the satellite cable in a room (where it’s not really needed) via a pass-through outlet (?) up to the attic and then star-connect 1-2 more outlets so that only one of them is used at a time? So only one device would ever be plugged in? Or is the mere presence of splitters/pass-through outlets without devices an issue?
Can I even use the same type of distribution for satellite and cable TV? (I understand that cable TV allows multiple devices to operate on a star splitter, while a star wiring with a quad LNB only allows one device to be used at a time.)
I hope it’s clear what I want? I’ll try to describe it differently. I imagine connecting a cable from the LNB to an outlet (pass-through?), and from there another cable running up to the attic (where the cable signal originally came from). The cable upstairs is currently not connected. I would like to connect this to another former cable outlet to be able to use either one or the other outlet.
Also, I still have the option to unplug the LNB and switch back to cable from the other side. Then the cable would probably have to be disconnected directly at the outlet or a terminating resistor would need to be added at the LNB? That’s okay… At this stage, I mainly want to arrange the outlets and cables so that I can easily feed one of the old outlets with one of the remaining LNB channels. Switching upstairs in the attic is not a problem, but of course, it would be nicer if it could work without that.
Yes, the reason was a switch from cable to satellite due to a change of ownership. Additionally, at one point where there was previously only one outlet, two satellite connections were needed, so a new cable had to be installed anyway. I assume that’s why they decided to simply ignore the old installation. However, there could also have been issues related to distance and cable quality. Thanks for the hint. I hadn’t really considered that yet.
Of course, I need to test it. But first, I would need to know how to connect it. That was actually the question.
Of course, I need to test it. But first, I would need to know how to connect it. That was actually the question.
RAL5018 schrieb:
Of course, I need to test it. But first, I would have to know how to connect it. That was actually the question. I would replace all connections with proper new connectors. Try to replace as much of the old stuff as possible. I think you’ll need F-connectors and F-couplers.
Otherwise, your plan sounds feasible, as far as I understand it. Maybe a sketch would help us visualize everything. For example, I’m not sure if the satellite equipment is located in the attic or somewhere else entirely.
It’s difficult to illustrate. The satellite dish is mounted on the garage. The new cables were simply run along the exterior wall or from outside under the roof, with a hole drilled at the required location.
The old wiring (cable HÜP) comes from the other side of the house and goes up to the attic. There was an 8-way splitter there, and the cables run back down to the old cable connection outlets. Unfortunately, while the cables are mostly in conduits at the lower level, some of them in the attic still come out of the plaster without conduit. So, replacing them is not really feasible in most cases.
The old wiring (cable HÜP) comes from the other side of the house and goes up to the attic. There was an 8-way splitter there, and the cables run back down to the old cable connection outlets. Unfortunately, while the cables are mostly in conduits at the lower level, some of them in the attic still come out of the plaster without conduit. So, replacing them is not really feasible in most cases.
RAL5018 schrieb:
The old cable connection is no longer in use. The wiring ran from the building entry point (BEP) up to the attic and from there via a splitter down to several rooms. The cables/outlets mostly still exist but are no longer connected. A typical case of a former distribution network for terrestrial antenna reception, where the signals were fed into the main feed line(s) from the top down and later converted to cable TV.
RAL5018 schrieb:
I am currently renovating and want to optimize this. I would like to keep the satellite connection for now but also keep the option open to switch to cable later. The bandwidth used for cable TV was first extended from 862 to 1006 MHz, which overlaps with the satellite intermediate frequency (IF) that starts at 950 MHz. The previously common combined feed of cable and satellite signals can also fail because the installation company for the cable network may refuse the feed if there is missing or poor grounding and potential equalization of the satellite antenna.
RAL5018 schrieb:
Can I even use the same type of distribution for satellite and cable? (Apart from the fact that I understand you can operate several devices via cable on a star splitter, while with a star wiring from a quad LNB only one device could be used, that is clear to me). The described frequency overlap can only be avoided with specific Unicable matrices. For laypersons without practical experience, who have to gather similarly simple antenna technology knowledge from forums, the qualification of I cannot be assessed.
According to standard DIN 18015, cable wiring inside apartments must only be installed in star topology and for a long time also only in pullable empty conduits. The simplest solution in this case would be to feed cable TV signals completely separate from bottom to top, apart from the satellite star lines, into the old line distribution or preferably into new quad-shielded cables. The pass-through sockets must then be reversed in signal flow direction or replaced.
Only antennas, including their cables, that are located within facade areas defined as safe, are exempt from grounding with at least 16 mm² copper conductors [AND] class H = 100 kA lightning current carrying connectors (and main equipotential bonding busbar) according to DIN EN 60728-11 (VDE 0855-1). Even with satellite antennas that are “passively” protected by the facade, a potential equalization of cable shields may still be required.
*Dipol* schrieb:
A typical case of a former distribution network for terrestrial antenna reception, where the signals were fed from top to bottom into trunk cable(s) and later switched to cable TV.Yes, I think so too.
*Dipol* schrieb:
Meanwhile, the bandwidth used for cable TV was initially extended from 862 to 1006 MHz, overlapping with the satellite intermediate frequency, which starts at 950 MHz. The previously common combined feeding of cable and satellite signals can also fail if the installation partner of the condominium fails or refuses to connect the satellite antenna due to missing or insufficient grounding and lightning protection.Thank you very much for the explanations – although I only understood about half of it, I think it still brings me a step closer to a solution.
I probably expressed myself poorly regarding “using the same distribution for satellite/cable.” I don’t want to use satellite and cable at the same time, but rather possibly switch from satellite to cable at some point. To what extent is this frequency overlap a problem? Then I could just separate the cables to the antenna and should avoid the described issue with antenna grounding, right?
At this stage, the main objective is to reuse the old installed cables if possible to bring the satellite signal to the outlets. Of course, this is limited because I only have one quad LNB. That’s clear. Is there, for example, a way to connect one port of the quad LNB to the old star distribution network so that I can connect a device to one of the outlets while the others remain unused? Or is it generally not possible to connect multiple (unused) outlets to a single LNB cable?
The remaining three LNB cables are connected directly to outlets that do not go through the old distribution. I could continue using those if I reactivate the cable TV connection.
Assuming that works, would I also be able to disconnect the LNB on the roof and connect the cable TV input there? In that case, would it even be possible to use all outlets (3 separate satellite outlets and the old outlets with cable TV)?
RAL5018 schrieb:
I probably expressed myself awkwardly regarding the "use of the same distribution for satellite/cable." I don’t want to use satellite and cable at the same time, but possibly switch from satellite to cable at some point. That is a completely different situation than a satellite and cable TV transmission over a shared distribution network. This misunderstanding could have been avoided with much less text by a simple sketch.
RAL5018 schrieb:
Is there, for example, a way to connect one outlet from the quad LNB to the old star topology network so that I can connect a device to one of the sockets while the others remain unused? Or is it generally not possible to connect multiple (unused) sockets to a single LNB line? THOUGHTS!
In older terrestrial systems, tree networks/main lines with multiple pass-through outlets were common, while star networks with branch/outlet cables (types?) were rare exceptions. Star topologies became popular only with broadband cable connections.
For a standards-compliant satellite antenna installation, the LNB cables should already be included in the mandatory equipotential bonding near the building entry point—even in older buildings. If this electrical shock protection is implemented according to standards, it provides a possible interface for cable TV signal injection. Any missing parts need to be retrofitted, whereby the connection of the (still) satellite star lines could also be done further inside the building.
During renovation, it should not be an unsolvable problem to install a coaxial cable with Class A+ shielding from the HÜP -> first grounding block -> main distribution amplifier -> 4-way splitter or distributor -> second grounding block and to connect the entire system with at least 2.5 mm² copper (Cu) wiring if installed in a protected way, or at least 4 mm² Cu if unprotected, to the main grounding bar of the equipotential bonding, which is mandatory even in older buildings.
Properly sizing the amplifier and adjusting the signal levels so that all subscriber outlets meet the standard signal window according to IEC 60728-101, as well as fitting modern compression or self-install connectors, is not trivial without practical experience and the right tools.
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