ᐅ Single-family house floor plan, approximately 200 sqm – comments welcome
Created on: 22 Oct 2020 21:24
C
Carlotte
Dear forum,
After spending hours as silent readers in this forum, my partner and I are now ready to share our floor plan for your feedback.
First, here is the questionnaire:
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 1322 sqm (approx. 14,230 sq ft); about 23 x 56 m (75 x 184 ft)
Slope: No
Site coverage ratio: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Floor area ratio: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Edge development: No, only carport/garage and garden shed or storage shed allowed
Number of parking spaces: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Number of stories: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Roof style: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Design style: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Orientation: corner plot approx. 23 x 56 m, streets to the north and west
Maximum height/restrictions: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Other requirements: none
Client Requirements
Design style, roof type, building type: Modern but not too "clean"; preferably a gable roof with a shallow pitch (20–25°)
Basement, stories: no basement, preferably 2 full floors
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (30 and 31 years old), planning for 2 children
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: Ground floor: entrance hall + cloakroom, guest toilet, office/guest room, large utility room + pantry, open living/dining/kitchen area, approx. 100–110 sqm (1076–1184 sq ft);
Upper floor: 2 children's rooms, children's bathroom, open "parents’ area" with dressing room and master bath, small storage room, preferably gallery/open space, approx. 90 sqm (969 sq ft)
Office: occasional home office use, combined workspace and guest room
Overnight guests per year: 10 nights
Open or closed architecture: open
Conservative or modern construction: modern, not too "clean"
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with freestanding island; slight separation between dining and living areas desired
Number of dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: double carport
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why something should or should not be included: if possible, an open staircase
House design
Who designed it: DIY based on various sources
What do you particularly like? Why?: Separation of dining and living areas despite open layout; direct passage from carport into utility room/pantry and then the kitchen; open space with view of the garden; all bedrooms facing the garden; rectangular building shape
What do you dislike? Why?: -
Price estimate according to architect/planner: floor plans of comparable size were around €450,000
Personal budget limit for the house, including fittings: €550,000–580,000 including carport, excluding landscaping (plot already owned)
Preferred heating system: ground source heat pump, KFW 55 standard
If you have to give up something, on which features/extensions
-you can give up: open staircase; storage room upstairs; fireplace
-you cannot give up: all other rooms in some form
Why is the design as it is now?
A mix of many examples. So far, the floor plans we received from planners were less to our liking.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters? Affordable (in Lower Saxony; urban area)? Can the staircase on the upper floor be built as shown? Does a ventilation system make sense for KFW 55?
Please ignore the window placement for now; it is rather arbitrary at the moment. The house will be positioned with a 3 m (10 ft) setback on the northeast side of the plot. This means the garden will extend to the south (short side, approx. 23 m (75 ft) total width) and west (approx. 56 m (184 ft) length).
Suggestions, comments, and improvement ideas are very welcome.
Many thanks in advance and best regards,
Carlotta
After spending hours as silent readers in this forum, my partner and I are now ready to share our floor plan for your feedback.
First, here is the questionnaire:
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 1322 sqm (approx. 14,230 sq ft); about 23 x 56 m (75 x 184 ft)
Slope: No
Site coverage ratio: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Floor area ratio: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Edge development: No, only carport/garage and garden shed or storage shed allowed
Number of parking spaces: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Number of stories: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Roof style: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Design style: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Orientation: corner plot approx. 23 x 56 m, streets to the north and west
Maximum height/restrictions: no development plan – § 34 Federal Building Code
Other requirements: none
Client Requirements
Design style, roof type, building type: Modern but not too "clean"; preferably a gable roof with a shallow pitch (20–25°)
Basement, stories: no basement, preferably 2 full floors
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (30 and 31 years old), planning for 2 children
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: Ground floor: entrance hall + cloakroom, guest toilet, office/guest room, large utility room + pantry, open living/dining/kitchen area, approx. 100–110 sqm (1076–1184 sq ft);
Upper floor: 2 children's rooms, children's bathroom, open "parents’ area" with dressing room and master bath, small storage room, preferably gallery/open space, approx. 90 sqm (969 sq ft)
Office: occasional home office use, combined workspace and guest room
Overnight guests per year: 10 nights
Open or closed architecture: open
Conservative or modern construction: modern, not too "clean"
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with freestanding island; slight separation between dining and living areas desired
Number of dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: double carport
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why something should or should not be included: if possible, an open staircase
House design
Who designed it: DIY based on various sources
What do you particularly like? Why?: Separation of dining and living areas despite open layout; direct passage from carport into utility room/pantry and then the kitchen; open space with view of the garden; all bedrooms facing the garden; rectangular building shape
What do you dislike? Why?: -
Price estimate according to architect/planner: floor plans of comparable size were around €450,000
Personal budget limit for the house, including fittings: €550,000–580,000 including carport, excluding landscaping (plot already owned)
Preferred heating system: ground source heat pump, KFW 55 standard
If you have to give up something, on which features/extensions
-you can give up: open staircase; storage room upstairs; fireplace
-you cannot give up: all other rooms in some form
Why is the design as it is now?
A mix of many examples. So far, the floor plans we received from planners were less to our liking.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters? Affordable (in Lower Saxony; urban area)? Can the staircase on the upper floor be built as shown? Does a ventilation system make sense for KFW 55?
Please ignore the window placement for now; it is rather arbitrary at the moment. The house will be positioned with a 3 m (10 ft) setback on the northeast side of the plot. This means the garden will extend to the south (short side, approx. 23 m (75 ft) total width) and west (approx. 56 m (184 ft) length).
Suggestions, comments, and improvement ideas are very welcome.
Many thanks in advance and best regards,
Carlotta
I tried simulating it myself:
I moved the dimension chains inward and used 36cm (14 inches) exterior walls.
In the kitchen, the tall cabinets measure 2.40 meters (7 ft 10 in), the island is 100 x 240 cm (40 x 94 inches) with a 90 cm (35 inches) clearance to the tall cabinets; it’s getting tight.
The guest toilet requires a toilet at least 90 cm (35 inches) wide, a 60 cm (24 inches) wide washbasin with clearance on both sides, plus a small shower (80 cm (31 inches) plus wall), totaling 2.40 meters (7 ft 10 in)... which also doesn’t fit. The cloakroom is tiny.
I sketched the upper floor: the kids’ rooms aren’t spacious.
The dressing room, about 1.67 meters (5 ft 6 in) wide, only fits one wardrobe. You can widen it a bit, but there’s no space opposite it if the bathroom next door is 1.83 meters (6 ft) wide. A bathtub placed widthwise would just fit, but lengthwise: 80 cm (31 inches) width plus shelves leaves only 90 cm (35 inches) for a double washbasin and clearance in front.
It just doesn’t work at all, unfortunately.
P.S. The staircase now has a width of one meter (39 inches) – originally it was drawn as 70-80 cm (28-31 inches)?
I moved the dimension chains inward and used 36cm (14 inches) exterior walls.
In the kitchen, the tall cabinets measure 2.40 meters (7 ft 10 in), the island is 100 x 240 cm (40 x 94 inches) with a 90 cm (35 inches) clearance to the tall cabinets; it’s getting tight.
The guest toilet requires a toilet at least 90 cm (35 inches) wide, a 60 cm (24 inches) wide washbasin with clearance on both sides, plus a small shower (80 cm (31 inches) plus wall), totaling 2.40 meters (7 ft 10 in)... which also doesn’t fit. The cloakroom is tiny.
I sketched the upper floor: the kids’ rooms aren’t spacious.
The dressing room, about 1.67 meters (5 ft 6 in) wide, only fits one wardrobe. You can widen it a bit, but there’s no space opposite it if the bathroom next door is 1.83 meters (6 ft) wide. A bathtub placed widthwise would just fit, but lengthwise: 80 cm (31 inches) width plus shelves leaves only 90 cm (35 inches) for a double washbasin and clearance in front.
It just doesn’t work at all, unfortunately.
P.S. The staircase now has a width of one meter (39 inches) – originally it was drawn as 70-80 cm (28-31 inches)?
Thanks for the feedback.
Regarding the bathrooms, we want to wait for the initial draft from the architect/developer and then consult a bathroom planner we know. However, the shower on the ground floor is not a must-have, so we have a lot of flexibility there.
- We still have a lot of flexibility with the wardrobe and guest toilet (see above). The kitchen has 3 m (10 ft) of cabinetry and the distance from the island to the cabinets is 1.00 m (39 inches) (can of course be moved further).
- Guest toilet (see above note).
- Wardrobe has 2 x 1.50 m (5 x 5 ft) cabinets; distance 1.10 m (43 inches) … too little?!
- Kids’ rooms: 15 sq m (161 sq ft) are fully sufficient from our point of view. They’re supposed to play outside anyway.
- Dressing room is 2.10 m (6 ft 11 in) wide and the bathroom 2.45 m (8 ft) wide. But maybe we will make it more open after all.
- Staircase is 90 cm (35 inches).
It probably only makes sense to discuss this extensively once the “professional” plan is available.
Regarding the bathrooms, we want to wait for the initial draft from the architect/developer and then consult a bathroom planner we know. However, the shower on the ground floor is not a must-have, so we have a lot of flexibility there.
matte1987 schrieb:We really like that idea!
I would start working on the bathroom design. If the desire for a separate toilet is so strong, you could also consider creating a more open concept by not strictly separating the dressing room and bathroom. There are great possibilities.
matte1987 schrieb:The measurements refer to the interior dimensions. I believe our software uses wall thicknesses of 10 cm or 20 cm (4 or 8 inches). We are aware that this doesn’t fully match reality, but the architect/developer should still have work to do.
Something’s not right. What are your measurements based on? I was just about to think through the parents’ area.
I used the base measurements of 8 x 4.65 m (26.2 x 15.3 ft). Exterior walls 36.5 cm (14.4 inches), the wall to the stairs as 11.5 cm (4.5 inches) masonry. I could imagine that this might need to be 17.5 cm (6.9 inches) brickwork for structural reasons.
If I draw it that way, everything feels much, much tighter.
So either you used wrong measurements for all the furniture and sanitary fixtures or your dimension data is incorrect. That doesn’t make things any easier...
ypg schrieb:As I said, the wall thicknesses don’t match in our case (see above). We have focused initially on the interior dimensions (probably a beginner’s mistake :P):
I also ran a simulation:
I took the measurement chains inside and set 36 cm (14 inch) exterior walls.
In the kitchen, the tall cabinets are 2.40 m (7 ft 10 in), the island is 100 x 240 cm (40 x 94 inches) with a 90 cm (35 inch) distance to the tall cabinets — it’s getting tight.
The guest toilet needs a toilet (at least 90 cm / 35 inches), a washbasin about 60 cm (24 inches) wide with clearance on both sides, plus a small shower (80 cm / 31 inches plus wall), 2.40 m (7 ft 10 in)... not really possible... The wardrobe is tiny.
I traced the upper floor: The kids’ rooms are not generous.
In the dressing room about 1.67 m (5 ft 6 in) wide, only one wardrobe fits. This can be slightly widened, but there’s no space opposite it if the bathroom next to it is 1.83 m (6 ft) wide. A bathtub put crosswise might barely fit, but placed lengthwise: 80 cm (31 inch) width plus side shelves leave 90 cm (35 inches) for double sinks and clearance in front.
None of this fits anywhere. ops:
P.S. The staircase now has a width of one meter (39 inches) - originally it was drawn at 70-80 cm (27.5-31.5 inches)?
- We still have a lot of flexibility with the wardrobe and guest toilet (see above). The kitchen has 3 m (10 ft) of cabinetry and the distance from the island to the cabinets is 1.00 m (39 inches) (can of course be moved further).
- Guest toilet (see above note).
- Wardrobe has 2 x 1.50 m (5 x 5 ft) cabinets; distance 1.10 m (43 inches) … too little?!
- Kids’ rooms: 15 sq m (161 sq ft) are fully sufficient from our point of view. They’re supposed to play outside anyway.
- Dressing room is 2.10 m (6 ft 11 in) wide and the bathroom 2.45 m (8 ft) wide. But maybe we will make it more open after all.
- Staircase is 90 cm (35 inches).
It probably only makes sense to discuss this extensively once the “professional” plan is available.
Carlotte schrieb:
As I mentioned, the wall thicknesses don’t match up for us (see above). We initially focused on the interior dimensions (definitely a beginner’s mistake). Again: I took your dimension chains as interior measurements. And it doesn’t add up.
Carlotte schrieb:
The dressing room is 2.10 m wide and the bathroom 2.45 m (6 ft 11 in and 8 ft 0 in). But maybe we will actually keep it quite open. No! Look: if you have 4 meters (13 ft 1 in) for the office to the right of the stairs, you have 4 meters (13 ft 1 in) on the upper floor for the dressing room and bathroom combined, minus a partition wall.
With 4 meters you won’t do justice to either of these rooms, not even close, as you have drawn them.
And yes: 2.10 m (6 ft 11 in) is still too narrow if wardrobes face each other. And where is the bathroom door supposed to be anyway?
Carlotte schrieb:
We still have plenty of room to adjust the cloakroom and guest toilet (see above). What do you call “plenty of room”? You will have to reduce those spaces because it doesn’t fit. That’s not called “room to adjust.” You are just narrowing down the furniture in the software until it fits.
ypg schrieb:
No!
Look: if you have a 4-meter (13 feet) office right next to the stairs, then upstairs you only have 4 meters (13 feet) for the dressing room and bathroom minus a partition wall.
With 4 meters (13 feet), you won’t do justice to either of these rooms, not even close, as you have drawn it.
And yes: 2.10 meters (7 feet) is still too little if cabinets are facing each other. And where is the bathroom door anyway? The office is incorrectly dimensioned (it is 4.70 m (15 feet 5 inches) instead of 4.38 m (14 feet 4 inches)). But even with 4.38 m (14 feet 4 inches), you don’t reach your numbers..
ypg schrieb:
What do you call “a lot of leeway”? You have to take something away because it doesn’t fit. That’s not leeway. You just narrow the furniture in the software so that it fits. Leeway means that we might leave out the shower and instead, for example, enlarge the wardrobe. And NO, we have not artificially shrunk the furniture!
Carlotte schrieb:
The office is incorrectly measured (it is 4.70 meters (15 ft 5 in) instead of 4.38 meters (14 ft 4 in)). But even with 4.38 meters (14 ft 4 in), your figures don’t add up.. Then nothing is correct in your drawing or measurements. Nothing applies because your figures are fictional and don’t match the drawing at all.
Sorry, but one question: what exactly are we trying to discuss here?
ypg schrieb:
Sorry, but a question: what exactly do we want to discuss here? I’m not trying to argue with you; as I have mentioned several times already, I am waiting for the architect’s plan (see above).
So far, the only incorrect measurement was the office dimension, and it actually means there is significantly more space available than you thought. Unfortunately, your unconstructive criticism isn’t helpful at all and doesn’t lead to any progress or improvements. Please don’t get me wrong—we have been and still are open to any suggestions and even tough criticism. But all you provide are statements like: 4.38m (14 ft 4 in) interior dimension breaks down into 1.67m (5 ft 6 in) walk-in closet plus 1.83m (6 ft) bathroom, so the partition wall must be 88cm (35 in)? If you’re not going to use a calculator, then at least try a rough estimate…
You are welcome to keep looking for incorrect measurements (and you will probably find a few more centimeters by manually measuring), or you can wait for the correct plan.
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