ᐅ Exotic combination: wood pellets plus exhaust air heat pump?
Created on: 31 Jul 2020 21:44
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RockyFranco
Hello,
First of all, thank you for providing a platform for questions like this.
I have the following issue that I’m trying to solve and hope to get some tips from the experts here.
I’m interested in a house but haven’t bought it yet.
- Viebrockhaus, so-called 3-liter house, haha. Built in 2000
- Very good quality in terms of bathrooms, floors, and materials
- Two upper floors totaling 200sqm (2,150 sq ft) with a mansard roof and a fully finished basement including an office of about 90sqm (970 sq ft)
- Now here’s the thing, hold on to your hats: the electricity bills are easily around 400€ per month, and depending on the year they use between 10,000–12,000 kWh annually. All electric, mind you. For two people!
- Radiators throughout the house. No underfloor heating! Two fireplaces, but their chimneys are located exactly opposite the technical room. They do have flaps to the hallway as well.
- Heating system: 2 x exhaust air heat pumps, Nibe Fighter 600 or 610, for the living area and one Nibe Fighter 315 for the basement/office.
- Central exhaust ventilation system from relevant rooms, with decentralized air supply openings in every room.
Clearly, the system is so inefficient that it probably runs on electric heating cartridges 90% of the time. Plus, the ventilation has to be on; otherwise, there is no efficiency at all.
I want to reduce these high costs. I’ve read that you can tweak the system with timers and turning ventilation mostly off, or trick the temperature sensors, etc. But I think all that is neither effective nor practical.
IDEA:
- Since there is LOTS of space in the technical room in the basement, including a large storage area, I’m considering installing a suitable wood pellet boiler. The chimney draft is external. The appearance doesn’t bother me.
- Combined with a modern exhaust air heat pump like the Nibe F135, which would only run occasionally.
To keep the ventilation going—I’m afraid of mold otherwise—the house was very dry and didn’t feel stuffy.
The viewing was on a 35°C (95°F) day, so it was blazing hot inside, obviously because warm air is drawn in.
What do you think about this, or is it nonsense? Would solar thermal for hot water be better? I have also thought about keeping the old Nibe just to run the ventilation function. What I don’t want is to break up 200sqm (2,150 sq ft) of flooring to install underfloor heating.
That rules out oil/gas/air-source/geothermal heat pumps.
I have also considered photovoltaic panels to cover the huge electricity costs, but that would be like casting pearls before swine and still wouldn’t be enough.
Maybe someone here has another tip.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Frank
First of all, thank you for providing a platform for questions like this.
I have the following issue that I’m trying to solve and hope to get some tips from the experts here.
I’m interested in a house but haven’t bought it yet.
- Viebrockhaus, so-called 3-liter house, haha. Built in 2000
- Very good quality in terms of bathrooms, floors, and materials
- Two upper floors totaling 200sqm (2,150 sq ft) with a mansard roof and a fully finished basement including an office of about 90sqm (970 sq ft)
- Now here’s the thing, hold on to your hats: the electricity bills are easily around 400€ per month, and depending on the year they use between 10,000–12,000 kWh annually. All electric, mind you. For two people!
- Radiators throughout the house. No underfloor heating! Two fireplaces, but their chimneys are located exactly opposite the technical room. They do have flaps to the hallway as well.
- Heating system: 2 x exhaust air heat pumps, Nibe Fighter 600 or 610, for the living area and one Nibe Fighter 315 for the basement/office.
- Central exhaust ventilation system from relevant rooms, with decentralized air supply openings in every room.
Clearly, the system is so inefficient that it probably runs on electric heating cartridges 90% of the time. Plus, the ventilation has to be on; otherwise, there is no efficiency at all.
I want to reduce these high costs. I’ve read that you can tweak the system with timers and turning ventilation mostly off, or trick the temperature sensors, etc. But I think all that is neither effective nor practical.
IDEA:
- Since there is LOTS of space in the technical room in the basement, including a large storage area, I’m considering installing a suitable wood pellet boiler. The chimney draft is external. The appearance doesn’t bother me.
- Combined with a modern exhaust air heat pump like the Nibe F135, which would only run occasionally.
To keep the ventilation going—I’m afraid of mold otherwise—the house was very dry and didn’t feel stuffy.
The viewing was on a 35°C (95°F) day, so it was blazing hot inside, obviously because warm air is drawn in.
What do you think about this, or is it nonsense? Would solar thermal for hot water be better? I have also thought about keeping the old Nibe just to run the ventilation function. What I don’t want is to break up 200sqm (2,150 sq ft) of flooring to install underfloor heating.
That rules out oil/gas/air-source/geothermal heat pumps.
I have also considered photovoltaic panels to cover the huge electricity costs, but that would be like casting pearls before swine and still wouldn’t be enough.
Maybe someone here has another tip.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Frank
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T_im_Norden1 Aug 2020 12:16Determine the heating load and insulation of the house first; without this information, you cannot decide what is better. After all, it's about 290 m² (3,121 ft²). There are also radiators designed for lower supply temperatures. If natural gas is available at the house, I would prefer it over a pellet heating system.
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RockyFranco1 Aug 2020 22:01I actually didn’t want to replace the radiators.
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nordanney1 Aug 2020 22:36RockyFranco schrieb:
Didn’t actually want to replace the radiatorsBut install a very expensive new heating system? Radiators are inexpensive, and replacing them is the cheapest part. You can even do it yourself with just a bit of basic skill.Stylish radiators can be quite expensive.
I would clearly choose gas here.
Depending on the insulation and required heating load, a standard heat pump is also an option.
In any case, this is a clear case for a qualified energy consultant or a good installer who knows how to properly calculate everything.
I would clearly choose gas here.
Depending on the insulation and required heating load, a standard heat pump is also an option.
In any case, this is a clear case for a qualified energy consultant or a good installer who knows how to properly calculate everything.
D
Daniel-Sp2 Aug 2020 00:38My first thought is: at what heating water temperature are the current radiators operated? Only with this information can further planning be done. This information is actually even more valuable than the calculated heat load, since you do not want to replace the radiators.
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