ᐅ Is the architect’s quote complete? Is the price reasonable?
Created on: 22 Jun 2020 23:21
N
NeuerBauherr
Hello everyone,
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
M
Matthew0326 Jun 2020 08:30NeuerBauherr schrieb:
Hello Matthew,
I had already posted this, ...
After receiving the architect’s offer, we contacted two different general contractors again, but their first question was always whether we had a detailed planning application drawing. Without this drawing, they won’t do anything, and I can only get the planning application drawing from the architect or design office. If we have this drawing, they are always willing to continue discussions, but without it the talks ended very quickly each time.
As I said, we have no problem working through a general contractor, but they seem to be hard to find. Maybe it’s due to the region or other circumstances. Then you were dealing with exceptions. Keep looking. It’s not the norm for a general contractor to refuse to prepare a plan for you.
By some definitions, this is exactly the definition of a general contractor (GC). Otherwise, according to that definition, it would be a subcontractor/general trades contractor (SGC).
But yes, I also understand that GCs usually have their own planners, whether employed or freelance.
The difference from an SGC is whether a trade is performed in-house or not.
My contractor is an SGC with an appointed architect, who designed quite freely according to our wishes and not only followed instructions but also contributed ideas and prevented us from making mistakes.
Unfortunately, he was part of the "symmetry above all" group, which resonated well with my wife, so I wasn’t able to fully enforce my "it also has to work well inside" approach in all matters.
But yes, I also understand that GCs usually have their own planners, whether employed or freelance.
The difference from an SGC is whether a trade is performed in-house or not.
My contractor is an SGC with an appointed architect, who designed quite freely according to our wishes and not only followed instructions but also contributed ideas and prevented us from making mistakes.
Unfortunately, he was part of the "symmetry above all" group, which resonated well with my wife, so I wasn’t able to fully enforce my "it also has to work well inside" approach in all matters.
N
NeuerBauherr26 Jun 2020 10:27Lumpi_LE schrieb:
and once again the service phases got mixed up. This keeps happening throughout the thread.
The offer states $3,000 for service phase 4. While it is true that you cannot carry it out without the previous phases, so at least some effort is involved here, it is not comparable. I can’t shake the feeling that some either do not want to read properly or are unable to!! Nothing is mixed up at all, just take a proper look at the offer—it explicitly states service phases 1 to 4. I even highlighted it again for you @Lumpi_LE
@Matthew03 and regarding your comment that I should answer something I have already written at least twice before, well... I’ll just keep my thoughts to myself.
Since this is drifting off topic, I’ll leave it at that and close the discussion.
M
Matthew0326 Jun 2020 11:15NeuerBauherr schrieb:
@Matthew03 and also your comment that I should answer something I have already written at least twice before, well... I’ll keep my thoughts to myself on that.
Since this is now getting off-topic, I’ll let the thread be closed.Are you otherwise doing well? It’s certainly frustrating when well-intentioned advice isn’t recognized as such, but then to add an air of arrogance really annoys me.
To clarify once again: The vast majority of general contractors (GCs), including regional ones, either create a floor plan and design themselves or do so through partnerships. You apparently encountered two exceptions, which is unfortunate. For the recurring issue you mention, a GC would probably be exactly the right fit for you. You might want to put more effort into this rather than just saying “I went to two who didn’t want to.” But hey, it’s your building project.
Tolentino schrieb:
Unfortunately, he was one of those from the "symmetry above all" camp, which resonated well with my wife, so I couldn't fully convince her with my "it also has to work on the inside" approach in every aspect. This is not meant to offend your wife, but rather the professional who, in my opinion, should have learned this: symmetry can certainly be appreciated as a positive element of beauty, but claiming symmetry "rules" is pseudo-aesthetics for those with difficulty understanding proportions, meaning it is unsuitable to replace actual design. Without the different parapet height in the middle children's room, your garden facade would, in my view, have crossed the line of what is acceptable in its simplicity. And with the "Villa @Shiny86" we have here on the forum a prime example of how the fear of too little symmetry can almost sterilize any spark of design ;-(
Matthew03 schrieb:
To recap: The vast majority of general contractors (GCs), including regional ones, either draw the floor plan and design themselves or do so through collaborations. You probably encountered two exceptions, which is unfortunate. For the problem you keep mentioning, a GC would likely be just right for you. I understood that the two GCs you asked likely had cooperation partners, but these are not available anytime soon (simply because, even for architects with below-average creativity, business is currently anything but slow, and clients prefer working with them rather than with building contractors who charge more like low-bid platforms). However, I was not referring to contract-bound planners for “custom designs,” but rather, since the original poster’s wishes do not seem to require that, simple stock plans as an alternative—like the Franziska 135, which can easily be adjusted half a meter (1.6 feet) wider to become the 142 and have a gable roof instead of a hip roof; including drainage, such a plan can be revised within two days.
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