ᐅ Is the architect’s quote complete? Is the price reasonable?
Created on: 22 Jun 2020 23:21
N
NeuerBauherr
Hello everyone,
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
N
NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 11:36Malunga schrieb:
What exactly does the architect’s contract state regarding what he is supposed to do for this fee? Hello,
according to the offer, he provides the following services:
Scope of the Architect’s Services
1. Building Law
- Ordering and converting site plans, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary design / design for approximately 360 sqm (3875 sq ft) gross floor area
3. Permit Planning
- Producing permit plans with corresponding entries (sections, elevations, title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparing the required forms (building description, building permit application/planning permission application, parking evidence)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, gross floor area, living area, volume, and cost estimate)
- Letter for obtaining neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed and comprehensive cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is created based on cubic meters or square meters prices according to BKI.
According to the offer, the energy consultant, fire protection consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately by us.
O
Osnabruecker23 Jun 2020 12:13You want a house designed by an architect in principle, which is then built by a general contractor.
How do you plan to proceed from here? Who will oversee the construction process for you? You seem to be beginners in this area.
Would it be possible for you to have the architect manage the entire project (detailed planning, obtaining quotes, and supervision)?
Or would it be an option to present your sketch to a few general contractors? Some of them work with planners who usually provide services at a much lower cost than an architect you would directly hire (though these planners would typically be working for the contractor, not for you).
How do you plan to proceed from here? Who will oversee the construction process for you? You seem to be beginners in this area.
Would it be possible for you to have the architect manage the entire project (detailed planning, obtaining quotes, and supervision)?
Or would it be an option to present your sketch to a few general contractors? Some of them work with planners who usually provide services at a much lower cost than an architect you would directly hire (though these planners would typically be working for the contractor, not for you).
NeuerBauherr schrieb:
And now the first doubt arises, because some people here have already said the price is "affordable," and now it’s “quite expensive”… Honestly, for a few drawings and so on, I also find 11,000 Euros plus VAT rather expensive—that’s about 14,000 Euros with tax. It’s understandably difficult for you to know who or what to believe here, so here is a brief explanation:
You can look up HOAI calculators online and read up on them briefly; they also explain what the service phases include.
You will find that your offer roughly covers service phase 2 and service phase 4.
If you enter this into a calculator, you’ll get about 4,300 Euros net fee. A star architect wouldn’t even lift a finger for much less than that; a typical signature architect might do it for around 2,000 Euros. That’s the context. At that price, you can assume it’s a well-known architect creating something special for you—but not a superstar.
Regarding your house costs: 360 gross floor area (GFA) is about 280 square meters (3,000 square feet) of living space—that costs at least 600,000 Euros for a standard house in southern Bavaria. A house for which service phase 2 alone costs 10,000 Euros will likely have a seven-figure price tag.
Well...
Let’s assume:
250m2 (2691 sq ft) x €2300 (net) (should be good standard) equals €529,000 for the house.
No garage, no additional construction costs, no landscaping...
The architect charges €500,000 according to HOAI based on the table. Zone 3 medium.
This results in about €74,000 for all service phases.
Phases 1–4 would therefore be around €20,000!
And unfortunately, that’s not a star architect.
Because they either charge the highest rate or place you in a different zone...
In my opinion, €11,000 with an acceptable result is good—assuming the permit is granted.
But the tip was already given: just let the general contractor plan and see what comes out. If you like it, you save some money.
Let’s assume:
250m2 (2691 sq ft) x €2300 (net) (should be good standard) equals €529,000 for the house.
No garage, no additional construction costs, no landscaping...
The architect charges €500,000 according to HOAI based on the table. Zone 3 medium.
This results in about €74,000 for all service phases.
Phases 1–4 would therefore be around €20,000!
And unfortunately, that’s not a star architect.
Because they either charge the highest rate or place you in a different zone...
In my opinion, €11,000 with an acceptable result is good—assuming the permit is granted.
But the tip was already given: just let the general contractor plan and see what comes out. If you like it, you save some money.
N
NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 12:51Osnabruecker schrieb:
You want a house designed by an architect in principle, which is then built by a general contractor (GC).
How do you plan to proceed? Who will manage the construction for you? You seem to be novices.
Would it be possible for the architect to handle the entire project (detailed design, obtaining quotes, and supervision)?
Would it be an option to approach a few GCs now with your sketch? Some of them have planners on staff who work significantly cheaper than an architect you hire yourselves (however, they normally work for their client, not for you!). Hi,
yes, we are definitely novices and not professionals. Everything else should preferably be handled by the GC / main contractor, accompanied by an external consultant/expert...
Regarding the complete service, we have also considered that, but the architect does not do it (probably not economically viable) and only covers design phases 1-4, then would hand over to a GC.
The alternative would also be fine; we have already had two discussions about that. However, we were unsure if they would really plan it as we imagine, especially if they have their own planner.
Similar topics