ᐅ Is the architect’s quote complete? Is the price reasonable?
Created on: 22 Jun 2020 23:21
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NeuerBauherr
Hello everyone,
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
N
NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 10:00superzapp schrieb:
Hello,
11K seems very low to me as well. The question is how much design creativity do you expect (or can expect) in design phase 1?
Gross floor area of 360m² (3880 sq ft) = how much living space?
To me, the amount mentioned above also seems low unless there are huge unfinished attics.
Structural engineering costs can add a small to medium four-figure sum. We are at around 4K for the building permit and house combined.
Who is supposed to handle fire protection? I thought that was included, but I might be wrong.
We are also paying extra for energy consultancy, but it is the same person (architect).
Are you planning to achieve any KfW standard or have you not thought about it yet?Hi,
thanks a lot for your feedback. Well, the architect doesn’t need to be very creative, because a rough plan (room layout, approximate room sizes) has already been set before us. We “expect” / “hope” that this is simply documented reasonably well on paper.
The final living area hasn’t been fully decided yet; for now, it should just be a rough indication. The planned costs of around 400-450k exclude pretty much everything else, such as landscaping, additional construction costs, furnishings, plumbing, and electrical work, which have a separate budget.
Regarding structural engineering costs... well, we’ll see what hits us there. We will talk to the architect who surely has someone to handle that.
Regarding fire protection... honestly, no idea. There hasn’t been much discussion about this here on the forum either. Who usually takes care of fire protection?
Regarding KfW standards, it’s not a requirement for us, but it would obviously be good if we could achieve the KfW55 standard to save long-term heating costs.
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NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 10:03Osnabruecker schrieb:
The factory design (including detailed quantity calculations) is not part of phases 1-4.
With your offer, you will receive a building permit / planning permission and, roughly speaking, some colored plans showing how your house is supposed to look.
The construction documentation and preparation for tendering (scope of work / bill of quantities) are additional phases. With these, you could then approach contractors and receive comparable bids.
With phase 4, you can only go to companies, say "this is how it should look," and they will give you various offers that you then need to compare. Hi,
thank you very much for your feedback. Hmm, I had almost expected that. So, we would need to contact the different general contractors and request bids based on the architect’s visual templates. Since the offers will likely vary, a direct comparison will no longer be possible... unfortunate.
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NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 10:08Lumpi_LE schrieb:
Here you basically get design phases 2 and 4 in a simplified form, so 11,000 € (about $12,000) is quite expensive...
And definitely 360 m² (3,875 sq ft)? That can’t be done for 400,000 € (about $435,000). Hi,
thank you first of all for the feedback. Now the first doubt arises, because some people here have already said the price is "cheap," and now it’s "quite expensive"... Honestly, for just a few drawings and such, I also find 11,000 € plus VAT quite expensive—that’s about 14,000 € (around $15,500) including tax.
I thought it would include things like bills of quantities and so on, so that maybe it would be possible to tender the project yourself rather than going through a general contractor, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Yes, according to the offer, it’s 360 m² gross floor area (3,875 sq ft), while the actual living area would be determined during the commissioning process. The planned costs do not include all the additional expenses like ancillary building costs, landscaping, electrical and plumbing, etc. You could say these are the costs for the “extended shell construction.”
With a budget of 11,000€ you can't expect much, especially not the detailed execution planning for a general contractor, which also does not fall under design phases 1-4.
Additional construction costs are usually around 10-15%.
I would wonder why the colleague has so little work to offer such a low price,...
Additional construction costs are usually around 10-15%.
I would wonder why the colleague has so little work to offer such a low price,...
NeuerBauherr schrieb:
Yes, according to the offer, it states 360m² (3,875 sq ft) of gross floor area (GFA). The actual living area would be determined during the contracting process. The estimated costs do not include additional expenses such as incidental building costs, landscaping, electrical and plumbing work, and so on. You could say these are costs for the "extended shell construction." Keep in mind that gross floor area (GFA) is not the same as living area! Depending on the design of the house, it may not even come close. GFA refers to the floor area of all stories (including walls), including partial floors such as attics.
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NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 11:07cschiko schrieb:
Keep in mind that gross floor area (GFA) is not the same as living area! Depending on the design of the house, they can differ significantly. The GFA refers to the total floor area of all levels including walls, as well as partial floors (e.g. attic). Hi,
Yes, we are naturally aware of that and it is clear to us. That’s why we mentioned that the actual living area would be determined later in the planning process... depending on whether the ceiling height is 2.80m (9 ft 2 in) or 3.00m (9 ft 10 in), and so on.
Our main concern was whether the offer covers everything needed to present it to the general contractors (GCs) / building contractors (BCs), and whether the pricing is reasonable for what is being offered.
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