Hello,
I am considering buying a "Reinhaus" from Reinhhaus AG and I find it somewhat difficult to estimate the heating costs. The ongoing expenses of this power plant, which is actually needed for heating, seem quite high to me, especially since it is supposed to cover 50-70 percent of the plant’s electricity demand in theory, but you still have to pay almost basic supplier rates for electricity.
It is described as follows:
The heat price The energy supplier places great emphasis on transparency in heat pricing. The monthly all-inclusive price for the heat received is calculated from a fixed base price and a consumption-based price.
The base price includes all fixed cost components such as the installation or purchase of the system in the technical center, regular maintenance, operation management, upkeep, chimney sweep fees, and any necessary repairs.
Maintenance of the heat transfer station in the ground floor register of your house is also included in the base price during the five-year warranty period.
The consumption price reflects your individual heat consumption. This includes the grid operation energy required to provide you with heat for heating and hot water production around the clock throughout the year. This cost is shared among all consumers by relating the sum of the heat meters of all housing units to the main heat meter relevant for billing in the technical center.
For 5 megawatt-hours of heating per year for a 145 sqm (1,560 sq ft) house, you are expected to pay a base price of 50.07 and a consumption price of 44.82, totaling 94.89 €/month. On top of that, there is an additional 19.22 charge for metering services.
That means about 114 €/month for just warm air.
If I check prices on Check24 for the same 5 megawatt-hours, I arrive at 303.16 €/year plus roughly 100 for maintenance and another 100 for chimney services, which comes to about 42 €/month, a huge difference in my view.
Even if you factor in a gas boiler that needs replacement every 20 years and costs around 3,000 €, that adds only about 12.50 € per month.
The “free electricity” generated by the community is then sold at quite a high price. However, it seems you can choose a different supplier here.
Have I missed anything, or are the ongoing costs really that much higher per year with this supposedly super-efficient power plant? It makes you wonder whether it might be better to take out an additional 50 € loan and try to buy something else, or if the running costs simply make the price unattractive again.
I am considering buying a "Reinhaus" from Reinhhaus AG and I find it somewhat difficult to estimate the heating costs. The ongoing expenses of this power plant, which is actually needed for heating, seem quite high to me, especially since it is supposed to cover 50-70 percent of the plant’s electricity demand in theory, but you still have to pay almost basic supplier rates for electricity.
It is described as follows:
The heat price The energy supplier places great emphasis on transparency in heat pricing. The monthly all-inclusive price for the heat received is calculated from a fixed base price and a consumption-based price.
The base price includes all fixed cost components such as the installation or purchase of the system in the technical center, regular maintenance, operation management, upkeep, chimney sweep fees, and any necessary repairs.
Maintenance of the heat transfer station in the ground floor register of your house is also included in the base price during the five-year warranty period.
The consumption price reflects your individual heat consumption. This includes the grid operation energy required to provide you with heat for heating and hot water production around the clock throughout the year. This cost is shared among all consumers by relating the sum of the heat meters of all housing units to the main heat meter relevant for billing in the technical center.
For 5 megawatt-hours of heating per year for a 145 sqm (1,560 sq ft) house, you are expected to pay a base price of 50.07 and a consumption price of 44.82, totaling 94.89 €/month. On top of that, there is an additional 19.22 charge for metering services.
That means about 114 €/month for just warm air.
If I check prices on Check24 for the same 5 megawatt-hours, I arrive at 303.16 €/year plus roughly 100 for maintenance and another 100 for chimney services, which comes to about 42 €/month, a huge difference in my view.
Even if you factor in a gas boiler that needs replacement every 20 years and costs around 3,000 €, that adds only about 12.50 € per month.
The “free electricity” generated by the community is then sold at quite a high price. However, it seems you can choose a different supplier here.
Have I missed anything, or are the ongoing costs really that much higher per year with this supposedly super-efficient power plant? It makes you wonder whether it might be better to take out an additional 50 € loan and try to buy something else, or if the running costs simply make the price unattractive again.
Look at it this way: you initially save a five-figure amount on the heating system (boiler, gas connection, exhaust pipe) plus roughly 200 euros per year for maintenance and chimney cleaning.
And you might save about 2 m² (21.5 sq ft) of space that you would otherwise need for the boiler and storage tank. That’s another estimated 4,000 euros tied up unnecessarily. Let’s say 15,000 euros initially plus 200 euros per year.
If I remember correctly, you are bound to your operator for 10 years, after which the system belongs to the community of owners (Homeowners Association) or something like that? Let’s assume the system is fully depreciated by then.
So over 10 years, you save about 1,700 euros per year (15,000 euros spread over 10 years plus 200 euros annual maintenance) for installation and operation. On the other hand, you only have higher running costs...
And you might save about 2 m² (21.5 sq ft) of space that you would otherwise need for the boiler and storage tank. That’s another estimated 4,000 euros tied up unnecessarily. Let’s say 15,000 euros initially plus 200 euros per year.
If I remember correctly, you are bound to your operator for 10 years, after which the system belongs to the community of owners (Homeowners Association) or something like that? Let’s assume the system is fully depreciated by then.
So over 10 years, you save about 1,700 euros per year (15,000 euros spread over 10 years plus 200 euros annual maintenance) for installation and operation. On the other hand, you only have higher running costs...
The prices for heat from a combined heat and power (CHP) plant are not excessive; they are actually quite reasonable compared to a district heating system. With a district heating network, you naturally face a large investment in network infrastructure, which should be significantly lower in this kind of project.
A potentially decisive factor for the provider: with a CHP plant, you can achieve a primary energy factor of 0.3–0.5, or possibly even 0.0 if it is a somewhat larger unit with a corresponding electricity ratio. In addition, this meets the renewable energy share required by the Renewable Energy Heat Act. This way, the provider can reach KfW 55 standard or better without much additional technology, or at least comply with all legal requirements without solar thermal systems or similar.
A potentially decisive factor for the provider: with a CHP plant, you can achieve a primary energy factor of 0.3–0.5, or possibly even 0.0 if it is a somewhat larger unit with a corresponding electricity ratio. In addition, this meets the renewable energy share required by the Renewable Energy Heat Act. This way, the provider can reach KfW 55 standard or better without much additional technology, or at least comply with all legal requirements without solar thermal systems or similar.
M
m1oSis1236 Jun 2020 13:28Scout schrieb:
Look at it this way: you save an initial five-figure amount on the heating system (boiler, gas connection, exhaust pipe) plus roughly 200 euros per year for maintenance and chimney service.
And you might save around 2 m² (22 sq ft) of space that you would otherwise need for the boiler plus the storage tank. That’s another estimated 4,000 euros you wouldn’t have to tie up unnecessarily. So let’s say 15,000 euros initially plus 200 euros annually.
If I recall correctly, you are tied to the operator for 10 years, after which the system belongs to the homeowners’ association (HOA) or something like that? Let’s assume the system is then fully depreciated.
Then over those 10 years you would have saved about 1,700 euros annually (15,000 euros divided by 10 years plus 200 euros maintenance per year) for installation and operation. The only downside would be the higher operating costs...What if the system then belonged to the community? Would that change the price of electricity and gas?m1oSis123 schrieb:
What if the system belonged to the community? Would the prices for electricity and gas change then? Well, a combined heat and power unit is typically depreciated over 15 years, though other periods might be possible. I haven’t read everything, but is there no contract governing a transfer? In that case, the operator would probably not hand over the system for free, which also wouldn’t reflect the technical condition.
Would prices change? Yes, but in which direction remains open. Without running the numbers, gas procurement through the condominium owners’ association (HOA) would likely be much more expensive than through an operator who has multiple systems in their portfolio or operates directly as a market player. On the other hand, they would want to maintain their margin.
What should not be underestimated is that the system’s operation must be carried out by a qualified person. This includes inspections, maintenance, and troubleshooting. An external service provider will charge accordingly. In addition, there are reporting requirements to the BAFA (possibly not applicable until transfer since there is no CHP subsidy), electricity tax and energy tax reimbursement to the main customs office, reporting and billing verification with the grid operator, numerous quantity reports to the state statistical office, and others. There is also internal billing and possibly complex administration of tenant electricity models.
You would probably end up at about 20 ct (cents) per kWh for electricity. So, a saving but electricity costs remain significant. After 10 years, the system will no longer qualify for the CHP subsidy (possibly not entirely with the not yet finalized KWKG2020), so a significant positive cost factor will disappear. Furthermore, a major overhaul of the combined heat and power unit will likely be due, which for a small system can amount to 50-70% of the initial investment cost.
H
hampshire6 Jun 2020 18:11A combined heat and power unit (CHP) is a very good infrastructure option. If the unit breaks down, a new one is provided under the contracting agreement. This solution is environmentally friendly and cost-effective. Your desire to build a house really shouldn’t be limited by this. I would have connected my house to a CHP owned by a neighborhood cooperative as well. We get our drinking water from a shared source. You really don’t have to own everything yourself.
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m1oSis1236 Jun 2020 18:46Well, that is the question. It may indeed be environmentally friendly, but based on my simple calculations using the basic data I have, over a lifetime I would still end up paying a higher amount by five figures compared to if I bought a house with a gas boiler right away. That definitely makes me think twice. Unfortunately, as an IT professional, I don’t have enough knowledge to know whether it would be better to spend a bit more on the house upfront and then probably save on electricity and gas in the long run.
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