Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
guckuck2 schrieb:
Correct.
Plus the homeowner’s fear factor (or that of the drilling company )
I also have a brine-to-water heat pump without modulation and have had similar experiences. About 4-5 cycles per day in winter, and usually 2 cycles in summer when not heating (domestic hot water, 180L (47 gallons) integrated storage tank). This adds up to about 1,250 cycles per year. The compressor’s durability is around 100,000 starts. So the expected compressor lifetime would be about 80 years.
Therefore, in my opinion, wear is not a valid argument in favor of a modulating brine-to-water heat pump. That’s why I didn’t choose such a model—it would have cost thousands more. I went for a very basic brine-to-water heat pump instead. The main advantage is noise level, as the modulating one often runs quieter. Apart from that, I also believe the difference is minimal.
Although your compressor starts for a non-modulating heat pump are very, very low. Many never get that low. Many have between 5,000 and 10,000 compressor starts per year. Then durability does become an issue.
Bookstar schrieb:
The main advantage is noise level, as the modulating unit often runs more quietly. Otherwise, I also believe there is less of a difference.
However, your compressor starts for a non-modulating heat pump are already very, very low. Many never come close to that. Many have between 5,000 and 10,000 compressor starts per year. Then durability becomes an issue. Correct, noise can be an issue. A modulating unit may be quieter.
It’s worth looking into why there are so many starts.
Hysteresis is probably the most effective factor here.
Should you also consider whether to use the "cooling" function of the brine-to-water heat pump? And would a modulating one make more sense then?
In summer, the compressor only needs to run to heat the hot water. But also to "cool" if I circulate around 20°C (68°F) through the underfloor heating pipes and the pipes in the concrete ceiling?
In summer, the compressor only needs to run to heat the hot water. But also to "cool" if I circulate around 20°C (68°F) through the underfloor heating pipes and the pipes in the concrete ceiling?
annab377 schrieb:
Do you also need to consider whether you are using the "cooling" function of the geothermal heat pump? And would a modulating one perhaps make more sense in that case?
In summer, the compressor only needs to run for heating the domestic hot water. But what about "cooling" when I send my 20°C (68°F) through the underfloor heating pipes and pipes in the concrete ceiling?No, the point is passive cooling. The circulation pumps run, but the compressor does not.
For how many people is your 180-liter (48-gallon) hot water tank, which is integrated into your heat pump, designed, @guckuck2?
What is actually better? Having the hot water tank integrated within the heat pump, or getting a separate hot water tank? Especially with smaller, suitable sizes, it is possible to have it directly in the heat pump.
What is actually better? Having the hot water tank integrated within the heat pump, or getting a separate hot water tank? Especially with smaller, suitable sizes, it is possible to have it directly in the heat pump.
4 people.
This is a matter of preference. A compact unit with a storage tank saves space; it is important to choose one where the storage tank can also be replaced separately. Integrated storage tanks are generally smaller than external ones. I believe Vaillant has the largest ones (210 liters (55 gallons)?).
Of course, 180 liters (47 gallons) can be somewhat emptied with a hot bathtub bath. If the rain shower is to be used immediately afterwards, it might be tight. However, in everyday life, we have not experienced any restrictions so far. The advantage is hygiene, as there is a high rate of water exchange in the tank. Additionally, this benefits the efficiency of the heat pump.
This is a matter of preference. A compact unit with a storage tank saves space; it is important to choose one where the storage tank can also be replaced separately. Integrated storage tanks are generally smaller than external ones. I believe Vaillant has the largest ones (210 liters (55 gallons)?).
Of course, 180 liters (47 gallons) can be somewhat emptied with a hot bathtub bath. If the rain shower is to be used immediately afterwards, it might be tight. However, in everyday life, we have not experienced any restrictions so far. The advantage is hygiene, as there is a high rate of water exchange in the tank. Additionally, this benefits the efficiency of the heat pump.
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