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C.beckmann198613 Apr 2020 16:54Hello everyone,
I wanted to ask for your opinion. In our new build, an air-to-water heat pump from Vaillant or an equivalent brand will be installed.
Since we are currently not considering air conditioning, we are thinking about using the heat pump for some cooling. Of course, it’s no comparison to a dedicated air conditioner, but at least a little cooling, right?
I would like the heat pump to operate in reverse mode to expel warm air outside. At the same time, my partner doesn’t want a “freezing cold” underfloor heating. Besides, the warm air naturally stays “up top.”
Can you still recommend something, or would you advise against this entirely?
Thanks for your help.
I wanted to ask for your opinion. In our new build, an air-to-water heat pump from Vaillant or an equivalent brand will be installed.
Since we are currently not considering air conditioning, we are thinking about using the heat pump for some cooling. Of course, it’s no comparison to a dedicated air conditioner, but at least a little cooling, right?
I would like the heat pump to operate in reverse mode to expel warm air outside. At the same time, my partner doesn’t want a “freezing cold” underfloor heating. Besides, the warm air naturally stays “up top.”
Can you still recommend something, or would you advise against this entirely?
Thanks for your help.
Cooling capacity is minimal, and the dew point should be monitored.
Cold floors are also an issue. If you want cooling, install an air conditioning system. Or at least prepare for it in areas where it makes sense (e.g., bedrooms). The cooling sensation also comes from dehumidifying the air, which does not occur with the reversible heat pump.
If you don’t mind the cost, go ahead and install it, but it is far from true air conditioning. That’s just marketing talk.
If you can buffer 1–2 degrees Celsius (34–36°F) at the start of a heatwave, that’s already good.
And warm air is not moved out by it either. Instead, it draws energy from the floor.
Cold floors are also an issue. If you want cooling, install an air conditioning system. Or at least prepare for it in areas where it makes sense (e.g., bedrooms). The cooling sensation also comes from dehumidifying the air, which does not occur with the reversible heat pump.
If you don’t mind the cost, go ahead and install it, but it is far from true air conditioning. That’s just marketing talk.
If you can buffer 1–2 degrees Celsius (34–36°F) at the start of a heatwave, that’s already good.
And warm air is not moved out by it either. Instead, it draws energy from the floor.
We have discussed this topic many times, and Rick has summarized it very well. Marketing and wishful thinking play a big role when it comes to "cooling via underfloor heating."
As Rick already mentioned, it’s about 1-2 degrees. But if it’s 28°C (82°F), it would then be 26°C (79°F), which is hardly noticeable.
However, every house is different, and some owners swear it works very well. Exceptions are said to prove the rule. With consistent shading and, for example, a surrounding forest, it is possible to keep a house at more or less tolerable temperatures—but not primarily through cooling, rather by preventing the house from heating up indoors in the first place.
In a typical new housing development, though, there is little chance of success. I have tried it myself, and it was just a drop in the ocean. Once the heat is inside, it stays there, and the high humidity makes it uncomfortable. This humidity cannot be removed by a reversible heat pump that cools the floor.
That’s physically not possible. You have an air-to-water heat pump. It cools or heats the screed (concrete floor layer). The warm air remains where it is. What you want is an air-to-air heat pump, which is what people commonly call an air conditioner. But this is uneconomical for heating—except again in suitable houses.
But she will get that if you try to cool with underfloor heating. That should be clear.
No, if you have the few hundred euros available, you can do it. Air cooling like you might know from cars does not come close to replacing it and is more of a homeopathic measure.
As Rick also said, maybe have the AC system prepared during construction so you can install it later.
All you need for this are two copper pipes (e.g., 1/4" and 3/8"), 5x1.5 NYM cables from inside to outside, and a condensate drain where the indoor unit is planned.
C.beckmann1986 schrieb:
Since an air conditioning system is currently not an option for us, we are considering some cooling through the heat pump. Obviously, it’s no comparison to air conditioning, but at least something, right?
As Rick already mentioned, it’s about 1-2 degrees. But if it’s 28°C (82°F), it would then be 26°C (79°F), which is hardly noticeable.
However, every house is different, and some owners swear it works very well. Exceptions are said to prove the rule. With consistent shading and, for example, a surrounding forest, it is possible to keep a house at more or less tolerable temperatures—but not primarily through cooling, rather by preventing the house from heating up indoors in the first place.
In a typical new housing development, though, there is little chance of success. I have tried it myself, and it was just a drop in the ocean. Once the heat is inside, it stays there, and the high humidity makes it uncomfortable. This humidity cannot be removed by a reversible heat pump that cools the floor.
C.beckmann1986 schrieb:
I would like the heat pump to run reversibly and expel the warm air.
That’s physically not possible. You have an air-to-water heat pump. It cools or heats the screed (concrete floor layer). The warm air remains where it is. What you want is an air-to-air heat pump, which is what people commonly call an air conditioner. But this is uneconomical for heating—except again in suitable houses.
C.beckmann1986 schrieb:
At the same time, my partner does not want “ice-cold” underfloor heating.
But she will get that if you try to cool with underfloor heating. That should be clear.
C.beckmann1986 schrieb:
Can you still recommend something, or do you advise against it altogether?
No, if you have the few hundred euros available, you can do it. Air cooling like you might know from cars does not come close to replacing it and is more of a homeopathic measure.
As Rick also said, maybe have the AC system prepared during construction so you can install it later.
All you need for this are two copper pipes (e.g., 1/4" and 3/8"), 5x1.5 NYM cables from inside to outside, and a condensate drain where the indoor unit is planned.
The general opinion in the threads here is that it definitely helps and contributes to keeping a house cool during the summer. It costs practically nothing to operate, and you can keep your house cool throughout the entire summer—of course, only if shading is also included.
The effects are obviously not the same as with air conditioning, but they are certainly noticeable. I wouldn’t want to do without it anymore, since I am against air conditioning if there are other options... (for ecological reasons—I am not in favor of unnecessary resource waste). And in new builds, it can be done differently if proper shading is planned.
The effects are obviously not the same as with air conditioning, but they are certainly noticeable. I wouldn’t want to do without it anymore, since I am against air conditioning if there are other options... (for ecological reasons—I am not in favor of unnecessary resource waste). And in new builds, it can be done differently if proper shading is planned.
Do you live on the Zugspitze or in a bunker? Shaded all day? Supporters usually sell the technology or are customers who bought it themselves. Nobody wants to admit otherwise...
From what I’ve seen, most threads say it doesn’t make much difference. Even users like @Mycraft say so.
23°C (73°F) and humid air feel more uncomfortable than 27°C (81°F) and dry air.
Strangely, in your post from February 18, 2020, you wrote that it makes a difference of 1-2 degrees.
I know several experts from the heating and air conditioning industry.
We followed this topic for a while as well (including integrating ceilings and walls).
Your heat pump also consumes electricity when it runs in reverse. Normally, it would be off during that time or only use power for hot water. In terms of cooling capacity, it is less efficient than an air conditioner. So much for your ecology argument. Anyone building a new single-family home shouldn’t get too carried away with claims about ecology. It’s more like “greenwashing.”
The most CO2 is saved by not having children at all. That also solves problems like overpopulation, hunger, etc...
*dark sarcasm*
From what I’ve seen, most threads say it doesn’t make much difference. Even users like @Mycraft say so.
23°C (73°F) and humid air feel more uncomfortable than 27°C (81°F) and dry air.
Strangely, in your post from February 18, 2020, you wrote that it makes a difference of 1-2 degrees.
I know several experts from the heating and air conditioning industry.
We followed this topic for a while as well (including integrating ceilings and walls).
Your heat pump also consumes electricity when it runs in reverse. Normally, it would be off during that time or only use power for hot water. In terms of cooling capacity, it is less efficient than an air conditioner. So much for your ecology argument. Anyone building a new single-family home shouldn’t get too carried away with claims about ecology. It’s more like “greenwashing.”
The most CO2 is saved by not having children at all. That also solves problems like overpopulation, hunger, etc...
*dark sarcasm*
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