ᐅ Obtaining an Exemption from the Zoning Plan – How to Proceed?
Created on: 11 Apr 2020 09:58
S
Specki
Hello everyone,
I need some assistance with our project. Since many here have probably gone through something similar, I thought I might get some good advice.
Starting point:
Land plot available
We want to build a single-family house (possibly with a granny flat).
Currently, there are 2 adults with 2 children (2 and 4 years old). The house will be used by us. The plan is to create a small granny flat upstairs that will later be rented out once the children have left home.
The following (relevant) requirements come from the development plan from 1974:
- Ridge orientation East-West
- Strictly single-story
- Knee wall max. 50 cm (20 inches)
- Roof pitch between 22° and 28°
Attached is an excerpt from the development plan. The plot outlined in purple is the one in question. The houses shown in red do not exist; they were just added for planning purposes.
We would like to change the ridge orientation and raise the knee wall to 1 m (3 ft 3 in), or preferably 1.25 m (4 ft 1 in), because otherwise the house would be too small.
I first went to the building authority and spoke with the responsible lady there.
She looked at the plans and said that from her side it is not a problem initially, but I need to speak with the district office (Landratsamt, LRA), as they have to approve it. She gave me the contact details.
I then called the gentleman at the district office. He said it would be difficult and advised me to submit a formal preliminary building inquiry. So, I sent an email to both the gentleman at the district office and the lady at the building authority.
A relatively quick reply came from the district office:
Quote:
“The development plan ‘XXX’ of the city of XXX is certainly somewhat outdated, and nowadays the designated house types would probably look different. However, the development plan still serves as the legal basis for issuing building permits—any planned construction project must therefore comply with the regulations set therein.
Regarding the ridge orientation, this is more of an aesthetic specification for the planned location than a higher-level urban planning objective—subject to approval from the city of Buchloe, a waiver (which needs to be applied for) for changing the ridge orientation can therefore be considered.
It is different with the knee wall specification. This is a requirement based on urban and regional planning reasons. So far, no exemptions have been granted here, so your plans must comply with the existing regulations. The district office of Ostallgäu, after consultation with our legal building advisor, cannot promise an exemption. To achieve a corresponding increase in the knee wall or possibly the creation of a second full storey, the development plan in this area would have to be amended.”
After that, I was pretty discouraged and sent another email asking if at least the roof pitch could be changed. This was about a week ago, and I haven’t received a reply yet.
Two days ago, I met another person from the city’s building department. He was working behind our property on the road planned there.
I chatted with him a bit. He said he understands that we want to deviate from the development plan. However, he has no influence in this matter because it is not his responsibility. I am already dealing with the right people at the district office and the building authority. I just need to talk again to the gentleman at the district office. Perhaps I could get approval from the neighbors or other people in the same building area (marked in blue on the plan) for my deviation.
He also said it wouldn’t be easy because of equal treatment rules and to avoid everyone wanting to deviate.
Changing the development plan would be unrealistic and could take up to two years. I can probably forget about that, especially since there are only three free building plots left in that field anyway.
So, that’s the situation now.
We definitely want to raise the knee wall a bit.
We don’t want to build a bungalow because that would reduce too much garden space.
With a 50 cm (20 inches) knee wall, you can’t really get usable rooms upstairs.
I am grateful for any tips or suggestions on how we could still achieve our goal.
Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Specki
I need some assistance with our project. Since many here have probably gone through something similar, I thought I might get some good advice.
Starting point:
Land plot available
We want to build a single-family house (possibly with a granny flat).
Currently, there are 2 adults with 2 children (2 and 4 years old). The house will be used by us. The plan is to create a small granny flat upstairs that will later be rented out once the children have left home.
The following (relevant) requirements come from the development plan from 1974:
- Ridge orientation East-West
- Strictly single-story
- Knee wall max. 50 cm (20 inches)
- Roof pitch between 22° and 28°
Attached is an excerpt from the development plan. The plot outlined in purple is the one in question. The houses shown in red do not exist; they were just added for planning purposes.
We would like to change the ridge orientation and raise the knee wall to 1 m (3 ft 3 in), or preferably 1.25 m (4 ft 1 in), because otherwise the house would be too small.
I first went to the building authority and spoke with the responsible lady there.
She looked at the plans and said that from her side it is not a problem initially, but I need to speak with the district office (Landratsamt, LRA), as they have to approve it. She gave me the contact details.
I then called the gentleman at the district office. He said it would be difficult and advised me to submit a formal preliminary building inquiry. So, I sent an email to both the gentleman at the district office and the lady at the building authority.
A relatively quick reply came from the district office:
Quote:
“The development plan ‘XXX’ of the city of XXX is certainly somewhat outdated, and nowadays the designated house types would probably look different. However, the development plan still serves as the legal basis for issuing building permits—any planned construction project must therefore comply with the regulations set therein.
Regarding the ridge orientation, this is more of an aesthetic specification for the planned location than a higher-level urban planning objective—subject to approval from the city of Buchloe, a waiver (which needs to be applied for) for changing the ridge orientation can therefore be considered.
It is different with the knee wall specification. This is a requirement based on urban and regional planning reasons. So far, no exemptions have been granted here, so your plans must comply with the existing regulations. The district office of Ostallgäu, after consultation with our legal building advisor, cannot promise an exemption. To achieve a corresponding increase in the knee wall or possibly the creation of a second full storey, the development plan in this area would have to be amended.”
After that, I was pretty discouraged and sent another email asking if at least the roof pitch could be changed. This was about a week ago, and I haven’t received a reply yet.
Two days ago, I met another person from the city’s building department. He was working behind our property on the road planned there.
I chatted with him a bit. He said he understands that we want to deviate from the development plan. However, he has no influence in this matter because it is not his responsibility. I am already dealing with the right people at the district office and the building authority. I just need to talk again to the gentleman at the district office. Perhaps I could get approval from the neighbors or other people in the same building area (marked in blue on the plan) for my deviation.
He also said it wouldn’t be easy because of equal treatment rules and to avoid everyone wanting to deviate.
Changing the development plan would be unrealistic and could take up to two years. I can probably forget about that, especially since there are only three free building plots left in that field anyway.
So, that’s the situation now.
We definitely want to raise the knee wall a bit.
We don’t want to build a bungalow because that would reduce too much garden space.
With a 50 cm (20 inches) knee wall, you can’t really get usable rooms upstairs.
I am grateful for any tips or suggestions on how we could still achieve our goal.
Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Specki
If everyone does whatever they want...
... what would you think if the neighbor on the left thinks the same as you and builds a three-story building or something very tall, which is actually what the zoning plan is meant to prevent?
I find it frustrating when someone considers themselves the center of the universe.
To build nicely: make the ground floor slightly larger and then add a knee wall of 1.20m (4 feet) in the attic. That would create a great house.
And please stop with your “dream” of a granny flat if you can’t even meet your own housing needs. That is by no means a valid reason to get permission for more living space. The reasonable arguments that everyone can understand have already been made.
By the way, this sounds familiar. Has this been discussed here before?
Specki schrieb:
Well, I’ve already read from many people that they were allowed to deviate from the zoning plan. So I’d like to try it as well.
... what would you think if the neighbor on the left thinks the same as you and builds a three-story building or something very tall, which is actually what the zoning plan is meant to prevent?
I find it frustrating when someone considers themselves the center of the universe.
To build nicely: make the ground floor slightly larger and then add a knee wall of 1.20m (4 feet) in the attic. That would create a great house.
And please stop with your “dream” of a granny flat if you can’t even meet your own housing needs. That is by no means a valid reason to get permission for more living space. The reasonable arguments that everyone can understand have already been made.
By the way, this sounds familiar. Has this been discussed here before?
ypg schrieb:
... what do you think if the left side of the building thought like you and then built a three-story building or something very tall, which is supposed to be prevented by the development plan. That’s comparing apples and oranges!
I’m talking about a knee wall that is 50 cm (20 inches) higher. I would reach the same height if I built the house wider, so the neighbor would have to accept it either way, depending on how I build.
And I already wrote that I would get approval from all neighbors or all owners within the development area. I have already received verbal consent from almost everyone.
What on earth does that have to do with a three-story building?
A bad comparison, sorry.
ypg schrieb:
I find it annoying when someone sees themselves as the center of the universe. Oh yes, I am the absolute center of the universe because I find a development plan from almost 50 years ago outdated and want to deviate from it by 50 cm (20 inches). By the way, both the municipality and the local authority agreed that the plan is basically outdated and would no longer look like this today.
Besides, I’m not trying to enforce anything legally or against the residents’ wishes here; I’m simply asking about possibilities to build a more sensible building.
Do you realize your comment is a bit exaggerated?
ypg schrieb:
A 1.20 m (4 feet) knee wall in the top attic floor then. What do you mean by knee wall? I’m not familiar with the term. I only found it as a synonym for a knee wall, but that is only allowed to be 50 cm (20 inches) high...
ypg schrieb:
And please stop all with your “dream” granny flat if you can’t even cover your own housing needs yet. It’s good that you don’t relate to this. For me, it’s simply the aspect that I would have the option to supplement my pension in old age and also receive KfW funding twice, although, of course, the related additional costs must be considered.
Besides, nothing has been decided yet. First, we see what’s possible, then we see what makes sense. This is not a dream, but an option!
ypg schrieb:
This sounds familiar, by the way. Wasn’t this already discussed here? Yes, the plot has already been discussed, but from completely different perspectives.
Specki schrieb:
The first house isn’t even shown on the plan ... which led me to suspect that it is not old.
Specki schrieb:
It is also not entirely within the building area. Correct. It exceeds the building boundary of “your” buildable area.
Specki schrieb:
The ridge direction was rotated so that it fits the cross street. However, this no longer complies with the zoning plan. That already means at least two exceptions from the zoning regulations. How is the knee wall there? The attic is finished, right? What about the other houses in “your” buildable area? That would be the first part of the site analysis.
ypg schrieb:
which the zoning plan is supposed to prevent. What it is supposed to prevent still needs to be clarified. The area north of the dead-end street is designated GI (industrial area!). The urban planner will have to explain to me why a single-story buffer zone is planned between two-story residential buildings and an industrial area—and on top of that as MI (mixed-use). If it were a nature protection area, that would make sense, but as it is? That would be the second part of the site analysis.
Specki schrieb:
This one has promise. Hopefully. In my experience, planning officers are reluctant to deal with laypeople and often give hardly understandable reasons, which they wouldn’t dare mention to professionals. But if it’s different for you, good for you.
Specki schrieb:
What do you mean by Drempel? ... I only found it as a synonym for knee wall. Yes, according to Wikipedia, that is correct. Here in the forum, we distinguish:
The knee wall boxes in the sharp angle in the attic.
Here’s an example with a 1.40m (4 ft 7 in) boxed knee wall, 28° pitch, and a 50cm (20 in) knee wall height:
Although you lose the boxed area, the rest of the space becomes more usable.
In an upper floor like this, you can nicely fit two children’s bedrooms and maybe a small kids’ bathroom if you add a dormer. The parents can have the entire ground floor. I think this can turn out very well. It doesn’t really cost more than having a higher knee wall. The decisive factor for the price is the usable area that needs to be finished, not the unused space.
I wouldn’t consider challenging the zoning regulations. Also, the chances of success are low if all other houses in the area have followed them. What the municipal site manager says hardly matters to anyone here. The key authority is the district building office. We built in a rural area. Our local building office manager was also immediately supportive of our project, but he had zero decision-making power.
Only the preliminary building inquiry with the district office brought clarity. We were lucky, but the situation was also quite different.
Why don’t you share the plot dimensions? Then we can get an idea of what is possible in terms of size and whether your complaints are justified.
Here’s an example with a 1.40m (4 ft 7 in) boxed knee wall, 28° pitch, and a 50cm (20 in) knee wall height:
Although you lose the boxed area, the rest of the space becomes more usable.
In an upper floor like this, you can nicely fit two children’s bedrooms and maybe a small kids’ bathroom if you add a dormer. The parents can have the entire ground floor. I think this can turn out very well. It doesn’t really cost more than having a higher knee wall. The decisive factor for the price is the usable area that needs to be finished, not the unused space.
I wouldn’t consider challenging the zoning regulations. Also, the chances of success are low if all other houses in the area have followed them. What the municipal site manager says hardly matters to anyone here. The key authority is the district building office. We built in a rural area. Our local building office manager was also immediately supportive of our project, but he had zero decision-making power.
Only the preliminary building inquiry with the district office brought clarity. We were lucky, but the situation was also quite different.
Why don’t you share the plot dimensions? Then we can get an idea of what is possible in terms of size and whether your complaints are justified.
Specki schrieb:
By the way, both the municipality and the district office agreed with me that the plan is actually outdated and would not look like that today. That reads differently from what you wrote that he is supposed to have said.
Specki schrieb:
Do you realize that your comment is a bit exaggerated? No. Why? Obviously, many people are reading along. That’s also why I explained the topic of the granny flat.
But I also showed you that knee walls can be built.
Specki schrieb:
and that I would then receive the KFW subsidy twice, even though, of course, corresponding additional costs have to be offset. And here we go again, going around in circles: options, although the actual needs are completely different. The bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...
@Escroda
Many thanks for your post!
That is really a good approach.
And thanks for the explanation about the knee wall. I had suspected that, but the internet showed different information.
@kaho674
Thanks to you as well for the info about the knee wall.
Yes, we would have done it that way anyway.
Upstairs we would like to have 2 children’s rooms + a small bathroom + storage room.
Then downstairs: parents’ bedroom, bathroom, kitchen/living room, hallway with stairs, utility room.
It would be easier to implement with a higher knee wall... Otherwise, the storage room would have to go downstairs, which would again increase the floor area and make it more expensive.
See attachment.
One shows the current state of the plot.
However, we plan to shift a boundary slightly. So also see the intended state as we imagine it.
To be exact, I quote again from my original post, from the email quote from the local building authority:
"The development plan ‘XXX’ of the city XXX is certainly somewhat outdated, and today the specified house types would probably look different."
I don’t have to think only about my current needs, do I? Am I not allowed to consider the needs in old age, when the children have moved out and the pension is not as good as I might wish? Then the house would in fact cover both our current and future needs, just by making a few planning changes and maybe building about 5 sq.m. (54 sq.ft.) larger to include a granny flat...
Regards
Specki
Thanks for your replies!
Many thanks for your post!
That is really a good approach.
And thanks for the explanation about the knee wall. I had suspected that, but the internet showed different information.
@kaho674
Thanks to you as well for the info about the knee wall.
Yes, we would have done it that way anyway.
Upstairs we would like to have 2 children’s rooms + a small bathroom + storage room.
Then downstairs: parents’ bedroom, bathroom, kitchen/living room, hallway with stairs, utility room.
It would be easier to implement with a higher knee wall... Otherwise, the storage room would have to go downstairs, which would again increase the floor area and make it more expensive.
kaho674 schrieb:
Please provide the plot dimensions. Then it is easier to get an idea of what is possible size-wise and whether your complaints are justified.
See attachment.
One shows the current state of the plot.
However, we plan to shift a boundary slightly. So also see the intended state as we imagine it.
ypg schrieb:
That reads differently from what you wrote he said.
To be exact, I quote again from my original post, from the email quote from the local building authority:
"The development plan ‘XXX’ of the city XXX is certainly somewhat outdated, and today the specified house types would probably look different."
ypg schrieb:
And this is where the endless circle starts again: options, although the actual need is quite different. The bird in the hand vs. the one on the roof...
I don’t have to think only about my current needs, do I? Am I not allowed to consider the needs in old age, when the children have moved out and the pension is not as good as I might wish? Then the house would in fact cover both our current and future needs, just by making a few planning changes and maybe building about 5 sq.m. (54 sq.ft.) larger to include a granny flat...
Regards
Specki
Thanks for your replies!
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