ᐅ Location of a city villa or detached single-family house on a 500 m² rectangular plot
Created on: 17 Jan 2020 18:03
T
Tolentino
Dear all,
after sharing the floor plans of my possible hamster cage with you in the other thread , here comes the next thread (thanks again for all the constructive suggestions there).
Just so you know, the semi-detached house is not off the table yet, as this plot of land is highly sought after and it’s not clear whether it will work out. But this one would be my favorite.
Now to this plot. For now, I’m mainly concerned with where and roughly how the house should be positioned on this plot.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: 500 m² (5400 sq ft)
Slope: none
Site coverage ratio: 0.2
Floor area ratio: 0.4
Building envelope, building line and boundary: 5 m (16 ft) from the street, 3 m (10 ft) from neighbors
Edge development: allowed for garages and sheds, none existing on the plot
Number of parking spaces: 1-2
Number of floors: 1.5–2.5
Roof shape: no preference
Architectural style: no preference
Orientation: aligned parallel to the street
Maximum heights / limits: ridge height max. 9 m (30 ft)
Below are the site plans I created myself based on the details from the listing.
This is a rough overview of the plot with building boundaries and dimensions.
My question is: where to put the house?
The broker suggests placing it towards the back, since you already have the 5 m (16 ft) setback at the front and would “gain” about 3 m (10 ft) of garden. My partner doesn’t like this because of the visibility from the street. I say: privacy screen! But I also think, a fence too high might create a prison-yard feel.
But even if you follow this suggestion, I wonder if a more square floor plan (-> town villa style) would be better?
Like this, for example:
Then parking space might be tricky, right?
Or upright like this?
I really want as much of a west-facing view and garden as possible. I tend to be an evening person and that side is less built up, due to the road. So I think more light comes through.
But the narrow floor plan caused lots of problems with the semi-detached house already. Well, here you could build longer instead.
What do you think?
Best regards
Tolentino
after sharing the floor plans of my possible hamster cage with you in the other thread , here comes the next thread (thanks again for all the constructive suggestions there).
Just so you know, the semi-detached house is not off the table yet, as this plot of land is highly sought after and it’s not clear whether it will work out. But this one would be my favorite.
Now to this plot. For now, I’m mainly concerned with where and roughly how the house should be positioned on this plot.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: 500 m² (5400 sq ft)
Slope: none
Site coverage ratio: 0.2
Floor area ratio: 0.4
Building envelope, building line and boundary: 5 m (16 ft) from the street, 3 m (10 ft) from neighbors
Edge development: allowed for garages and sheds, none existing on the plot
Number of parking spaces: 1-2
Number of floors: 1.5–2.5
Roof shape: no preference
Architectural style: no preference
Orientation: aligned parallel to the street
Maximum heights / limits: ridge height max. 9 m (30 ft)
Below are the site plans I created myself based on the details from the listing.
This is a rough overview of the plot with building boundaries and dimensions.
My question is: where to put the house?
The broker suggests placing it towards the back, since you already have the 5 m (16 ft) setback at the front and would “gain” about 3 m (10 ft) of garden. My partner doesn’t like this because of the visibility from the street. I say: privacy screen! But I also think, a fence too high might create a prison-yard feel.
But even if you follow this suggestion, I wonder if a more square floor plan (-> town villa style) would be better?
Like this, for example:
Then parking space might be tricky, right?
Or upright like this?
I really want as much of a west-facing view and garden as possible. I tend to be an evening person and that side is less built up, due to the road. So I think more light comes through.
But the narrow floor plan caused lots of problems with the semi-detached house already. Well, here you could build longer instead.
What do you think?
Best regards
Tolentino
Escroda schrieb:
Where do the floor area ratio, plot ratio, building boundaries, parking exclusion outside the developable area, and height restrictions come from? Well, Berlin is very particular since there is a legally disputed plan there that is something between a land-use plan and a development plan. But without clarity about the planning law, discussing the location is, in my opinion, pointless.Well, the statements come from the homebuilder, saying that building according to §34 of the Federal Building Code (Baugesetzbuch) is permitted there. I have heard the same from other real estate agents and builders for this area. Sometimes the 5m (16 feet) distance to the street is only 3m (10 feet), if there are enough examples in the neighborhood where this has been built and approved.
The fact that there is no finalized development plan for this parcel can be viewed online via ALKIS.
So I have now entered all worst-case requirements here and want to go through ideas accordingly. If it turns out later that I can go closer to the front or place something not connected to the ground within the 5m (16 feet) zone, that would only be better.
kaho674 schrieb:
What I don’t understand is: who pays for the path to the rear house? And who pays for the land? Shouldn’t it be 100% charged to the rear house? What benefit does the front house have from it? It’s of no use at all.ltenzer schrieb:
The price for the right of access to the property has probably already been paid by the neighbor at some point to the current or previous owner of Tolentino’s desired lot — included in the purchase price of the land.
Tolentino can still be glad if this strip belongs to him. He can use it as an access path and does not have to keep a 3m (10 feet) distance from it like he would with land owned by someone else.So, everything I have shown would be my property, but I must grant access rights for the rear property (which is adjacent on the plan but not shown here). The entire lot is actually about 940 m² (10,120 sq ft) and is to be subdivided. How exactly it will be divided is still quite flexible. But I think the broker’s suggestion makes sense. Why should I locate the access strip to the south if I know for sure that someone will be regularly walking there?
I also considered assigning the vehicular access strip to the neighbor, but as @ltenzer already pointed out, then I would have to leave 3m (10 feet) clear from it as well. So that’s not very practical, even if losing the 60 m² (650 sq ft) is frustrating.
ltenzer schrieb:
I can only speak from my personal living feeling:
Behind the house, I’m away from the street, feeling protected in a private niche.
In front of the house, I notice a lot more of what’s happening on the street, including traffic noise.
[...]Well, it is a very quiet street with only single-family homes and townhouses, without sidewalks. Whether anyone actually strolls there... well.
But okay, I understand and I’m not opposed. I was just initially persuaded by the broker.
kaho674 schrieb:
Basically, you’re right.
It’s more about the fact that you’re not allowed to place anything on the strip at the front. If parking spaces aren’t allowed, probably neither a carport, shed, nor any kind of tent is permitted. So, bicycles, cars, and lawnmowers have to be stored elsewhere, and the other side would be more suitable since edge construction would be possible there.
With a house width of 11m (36 feet), you would only have 2.30m (7.5 feet) for a car, which I consider too narrow. Sure, the house could be narrower, but then you lose garden depth. Maybe we should first see whether you even have a chance to get that land?Yes, that’s true. I had somehow thought a shelter might be possible, but it’s unlikely if you’re not even allowed to establish a gravel parking space there.
ypg schrieb:
Guys, you’re making a mistake!
You can’t expect to park at a 90-degree angle on a three-meter-wide (10 feet) strip. It just won’t work unless you add another meter and take five minutes to maneuver each time.
Or use a crane.
But I don’t understand why you’re fixated on the square shape: three kids’ rooms fit better in a longer layout, and that is definitely feasible here without strain.Yes, three meters (10 feet) is tight there. That again supports the idea of placing the house closer to the front if you want two parking spaces on the lot. One could fit in front anyway since I have to keep 5m (16 feet) distance (or park them one behind the other).
I don’t think there’s a stubborn insistence on the square shape. All our recent floor plans have been around 11 x 8m (36 x 26 feet).
kbt09 schrieb:
- clarify whether a carport is allowed on the legal ground floor area at the end ... unlike a garage, it does not have a concrete slab
As you have drawn it, no, since the adjacent plot connects on the right side. So either place it all the way at the front, then I still have 5m (16 feet) at the back, which should be enough space for a longer parking spot with a shelter for anything that should stay dry.
I have been thinking again about the ownership situation... those 3 meters (approximately 10 feet)...
They will be paved... but by whom? And who is responsible for maintenance? Who has to shovel snow?
I don’t see this as straightforward if you become the owners.
I would definitely look into that.
@Escroda has already expressed some concerns.
I see it more as a shared property with a fractional ownership agreement so that the driveway can be used by both parties. Or something similar.
Otherwise, in terms of size and orientation, it’s a completely normal plot.
I would simply make a list of pros and cons and compare it to the detached house (DH).
Put side by side what is actually possible, including financially. A larger house is possible here, but not necessarily affordable.
How large was the DH lot? Also consider the garden and carport, the developer versus main contractor, purchase incidental costs versus construction incidental costs, and so on.
They will be paved... but by whom? And who is responsible for maintenance? Who has to shovel snow?
I don’t see this as straightforward if you become the owners.
I would definitely look into that.
@Escroda has already expressed some concerns.
I see it more as a shared property with a fractional ownership agreement so that the driveway can be used by both parties. Or something similar.
Otherwise, in terms of size and orientation, it’s a completely normal plot.
I would simply make a list of pros and cons and compare it to the detached house (DH).
Put side by side what is actually possible, including financially. A larger house is possible here, but not necessarily affordable.
How large was the DH lot? Also consider the garden and carport, the developer versus main contractor, purchase incidental costs versus construction incidental costs, and so on.
ypg schrieb:
However, I don’t understand why people insist on the square shape: Tolentino schrieb:
because building is only allowed there according to Section 34 of the Building Code. which clearly rules out a round Trullo
Tolentino schrieb:
The entire plot is actually 940 m² (10,115 sq ft) and is going to be subdivided. How exactly it will be divided is still quite flexible. But I think the broker’s suggestion makes sense. Also a nice piece of information for post #37. Maybe – especially since @Escroda has already been invited – better suggestions could be made if you showed the surrounding parcels as well :-(
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
ypg schrieb:
I’ve been thinking again about the ownership situation... this 3-meter (approximately 10 feet) strip...
It's going to be paved, right? But by whom? And who is responsible for maintenance? Who has to shovel snow?
I don’t see this as unproblematic if you become the owners.
I would definitely look into that.
@Escroda has already expressed some concerns.
I’d rather see it as a shared property with a form of joint ownership so that the driveway can be used by both parties. Or something like that.
Otherwise, in terms of size and orientation, it’s a completely normal lot.
I would start by making a pros and cons list and compare it with the semi-detached house.
Compare what’s actually possible, including financially. A larger house may be possible here, but maybe not affordable.
How big was the semi-detached house’s lot? Also consider garden areas and the carport... developer versus general contractor... purchase costs versus construction ancillary costs and so on. That’s true. It seems common here in Berlin right now, as many lots are being subdivided again, and I had just taken it for granted without questioning. I actually like the idea of quasi joint ownership with a shared division. Otherwise, the strip might really have to be split in two so that each party takes care of their half.
Paving is another issue. I was thinking of just placing some stone slabs there. Or those concrete grids with grass growing through in the middle. Or gravel.
On another note: The prices are actually quite similar. The lot is more expensive, but the house is probably cheaper to build. With the developer, I have to pay property transfer tax on everything and agent commission only on the land portion. Here, the land purchase is fully without commission and transfer tax only applies to the land. That already saves me about 30,000 EUR (as 30TEUR means 30,000 euros), which I can then invest in the kitchen and outdoor areas...
This is not really a decision between the semi-detached house and this lot. If I can get this lot, I’ll take it instead of the semi-detached house. The semi-detached house is more like...
ypg schrieb:
I’ve been thinking again about the property ownership... those 3 meters (10 feet)…
That area will be paved… but by whom? And who is responsible for maintenance? Who has to clear the snow?
I don’t see this as unproblematic if you become the owners.
I would definitely look into that.Exactly my question! Who pays for it, and from whose plot ratio does the square meters (square feet) get deducted?Similar topics