Good evening everyone,
Due to the limited availability of existing properties and some very specific requirements, we are planning a single-family house with a few special features. First of all: I am open to all suggestions and also welcome honest, well-founded criticism.
Some basics:
1. We have two children (3 and 1 years old) and are planning for a third, so there will be five of us eventually.
2. DIY work is almost out of the question. Only painting and laying carpet flooring in the basement are tasks we feel capable of doing ourselves.
3. I definitely need a separate home office since I mostly work from home (planned in the basement, see below).
4. A very large hobby room is a must in the basement. It should be rectangular and at least 2.70m (8.9 ft) high (hence basement ceiling height 2.70m).
5. We want to be as uninvolved as possible in the construction, so we have only looked at prefab house providers so far and would currently prefer a turnkey construction.
6. WE DO NOT HAVE A PLOT YET! Therefore, the house has been designed so that its roof and number of floors should fit many potential plots roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches).
Today we received an offer from the prefab house company that seemed "quite suitable" to us so far. The salesperson was to consider the following requirements in addition to those mentioned above:
1. The children should live on the upper floor. In addition, a guest room/home office (for my wife) should be included there.
2. The master bedroom should be on the ground floor with its own bathroom. A separate guest toilet should also be on the ground floor.
3. My wife wants an open L-shaped living/dining room if possible.
4. A small separate pantry should be located behind the kitchen.
5. We are not into "frills." Large galleries, huge bathrooms, big hallways, etc. are considered a waste of space and money. So rather functional and practical.
Our initial assessment
Without preempting your professional opinions, we find the following aspects of the proposed floor plan problematic:
1. The biggest concern is the kitchen’s width of only 2.15m (7 ft). This is unacceptable. The seller then suggested extending the kitchen by 1.20m (4 ft) with some kind of "addition" (sorry, I don’t know the correct technical term). However, this extension would cost at least 12,000. We were not very enthusiastic about this idea.
2. The guest/home office on the upper floor also seems impractical for the same reasons.
3. In general, I find the angled room for child 1 on the upper floor not ideal to use.
4. Isn’t the master bathroom too narrow at 1.8m (6 ft)? Of course, we are slim but these dimensions seem tight.
5. I consider both the type and location of the staircase suboptimal. I would prefer it on the side, and we want a continuous staircase from top to bottom, not one that leads down through a separate door as shown in the plan (not a dealbreaker, but feels odd to us, especially given the already narrow kitchen…). What kind of staircase would you choose? Where would you place it?
6. Is the arrangement of the bathrooms acceptable? From a layman’s perspective, I thought that at least the children’s and parents’ bathrooms should be above each other.
7. How do you assess the lighting situation through the windows? We find it suboptimal in some rooms. A bright house is very important to us! Where else would you add windows?
8. Surely subjective as with many things, but how do you evaluate the fact that my office is in the basement? I will be spending a lot of time there.
Thank you very much for every suggestion! I am aware we are still at a very early stage, but our goal is to have a "reliable" floor plan soon that will largely be set (I understand that the layout of rooms will ultimately depend on the specific plot and might require further adjustments).
Questionnaire
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: not yet available, should be 600–1000m2 (6460–10760 sq ft), having a garden is very important to us!
Slope: n/a, we are generally open to a sloped site (for light in the basement)
Builders’ requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: Open to almost anything... my wife is not a fan of the "cube" style. Planned as roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches)
Basement, floors: Full basement (mandatory, see above), 2 floors (or does the upper floor not count fully because of the knee wall?)
Number of people, age: 4 people (39, 34, 3, 1 years old), planning a third child in the future
Space requirements on ground floor/upper floor: Ground floor: living/dining room, parents’ bedroom, parents’ bathroom, guest toilet, pantry; Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, guest room, children’s bathroom; Basement: hobby room, office, utility room
Office: Family use or home office? Main workplace is the office
Guests per year: several times a year, probably more in future due to children
Open or closed architecture: Don’t quite understand this; "open" in living/dining, but no gallery or entrance hall, please!
Conservative or modern design: Either possible
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Definitely. A kitchen island would be nice (not realized in the current design, also not a must-have)
Number of dining seats: 1
Fireplace: Prepared, included in budget with 4,500
Music/stereo system: High-quality integrated stereo system planned in the living room, I will handle this myself
Balcony, roof terrace: Not important because the garden is our priority.
Garage, carport: Secondary for now (budget!), both could be added later and should thus be kept in mind.
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: Garden is very important, especially to my wife. It doesn’t have to be huge, but she wants a kitchen garden and enjoys regularly redesigning it.
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons why or why not: Very large rectangular hobby room with high ceilings.
House design
Who designed the plan: independent sales agent of prefab house company
What do you particularly like? Basically, our wishes (see above) were taken into account. Admittedly, the hobby room is my thing and I quite like it.
What do you not like? See our eight points above, especially the kitchen being so inadequate.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 415,000 for the entire house (DIN 277 living space ground + upper floor = 177m2 or 1905 sq ft, basement 88m2 or 947 sq ft)
Personal price limit for house, including fittings: 450,000
Preferred heating technology: I have no idea! Planned is a condensing gas boiler with underfloor heating (also in the basement). Suggestions are welcome here as well.
If you had to give up, which details/extensions
- Could you do without: Everything is already planned very functionally in our opinion, so no "frills," no oversized bathrooms, etc. Well, except for the hobby room, I know
- Could you not do without: See above.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters
How can the kitchen be designed/integrated properly, staircase better placed, parents’ bathroom improved, and upper floor clarified further?
Due to the limited availability of existing properties and some very specific requirements, we are planning a single-family house with a few special features. First of all: I am open to all suggestions and also welcome honest, well-founded criticism.
Some basics:
1. We have two children (3 and 1 years old) and are planning for a third, so there will be five of us eventually.
2. DIY work is almost out of the question. Only painting and laying carpet flooring in the basement are tasks we feel capable of doing ourselves.
3. I definitely need a separate home office since I mostly work from home (planned in the basement, see below).
4. A very large hobby room is a must in the basement. It should be rectangular and at least 2.70m (8.9 ft) high (hence basement ceiling height 2.70m).
5. We want to be as uninvolved as possible in the construction, so we have only looked at prefab house providers so far and would currently prefer a turnkey construction.
6. WE DO NOT HAVE A PLOT YET! Therefore, the house has been designed so that its roof and number of floors should fit many potential plots roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches).
Today we received an offer from the prefab house company that seemed "quite suitable" to us so far. The salesperson was to consider the following requirements in addition to those mentioned above:
1. The children should live on the upper floor. In addition, a guest room/home office (for my wife) should be included there.
2. The master bedroom should be on the ground floor with its own bathroom. A separate guest toilet should also be on the ground floor.
3. My wife wants an open L-shaped living/dining room if possible.
4. A small separate pantry should be located behind the kitchen.
5. We are not into "frills." Large galleries, huge bathrooms, big hallways, etc. are considered a waste of space and money. So rather functional and practical.
Our initial assessment
Without preempting your professional opinions, we find the following aspects of the proposed floor plan problematic:
1. The biggest concern is the kitchen’s width of only 2.15m (7 ft). This is unacceptable. The seller then suggested extending the kitchen by 1.20m (4 ft) with some kind of "addition" (sorry, I don’t know the correct technical term). However, this extension would cost at least 12,000. We were not very enthusiastic about this idea.
2. The guest/home office on the upper floor also seems impractical for the same reasons.
3. In general, I find the angled room for child 1 on the upper floor not ideal to use.
4. Isn’t the master bathroom too narrow at 1.8m (6 ft)? Of course, we are slim but these dimensions seem tight.
5. I consider both the type and location of the staircase suboptimal. I would prefer it on the side, and we want a continuous staircase from top to bottom, not one that leads down through a separate door as shown in the plan (not a dealbreaker, but feels odd to us, especially given the already narrow kitchen…). What kind of staircase would you choose? Where would you place it?
6. Is the arrangement of the bathrooms acceptable? From a layman’s perspective, I thought that at least the children’s and parents’ bathrooms should be above each other.
7. How do you assess the lighting situation through the windows? We find it suboptimal in some rooms. A bright house is very important to us! Where else would you add windows?
8. Surely subjective as with many things, but how do you evaluate the fact that my office is in the basement? I will be spending a lot of time there.
Thank you very much for every suggestion! I am aware we are still at a very early stage, but our goal is to have a "reliable" floor plan soon that will largely be set (I understand that the layout of rooms will ultimately depend on the specific plot and might require further adjustments).
Questionnaire
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: not yet available, should be 600–1000m2 (6460–10760 sq ft), having a garden is very important to us!
Slope: n/a, we are generally open to a sloped site (for light in the basement)
Builders’ requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: Open to almost anything... my wife is not a fan of the "cube" style. Planned as roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches)
Basement, floors: Full basement (mandatory, see above), 2 floors (or does the upper floor not count fully because of the knee wall?)
Number of people, age: 4 people (39, 34, 3, 1 years old), planning a third child in the future
Space requirements on ground floor/upper floor: Ground floor: living/dining room, parents’ bedroom, parents’ bathroom, guest toilet, pantry; Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, guest room, children’s bathroom; Basement: hobby room, office, utility room
Office: Family use or home office? Main workplace is the office
Guests per year: several times a year, probably more in future due to children
Open or closed architecture: Don’t quite understand this; "open" in living/dining, but no gallery or entrance hall, please!
Conservative or modern design: Either possible
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Definitely. A kitchen island would be nice (not realized in the current design, also not a must-have)
Number of dining seats: 1
Fireplace: Prepared, included in budget with 4,500
Music/stereo system: High-quality integrated stereo system planned in the living room, I will handle this myself
Balcony, roof terrace: Not important because the garden is our priority.
Garage, carport: Secondary for now (budget!), both could be added later and should thus be kept in mind.
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: Garden is very important, especially to my wife. It doesn’t have to be huge, but she wants a kitchen garden and enjoys regularly redesigning it.
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons why or why not: Very large rectangular hobby room with high ceilings.
House design
Who designed the plan: independent sales agent of prefab house company
What do you particularly like? Basically, our wishes (see above) were taken into account. Admittedly, the hobby room is my thing and I quite like it.
What do you not like? See our eight points above, especially the kitchen being so inadequate.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 415,000 for the entire house (DIN 277 living space ground + upper floor = 177m2 or 1905 sq ft, basement 88m2 or 947 sq ft)
Personal price limit for house, including fittings: 450,000
Preferred heating technology: I have no idea! Planned is a condensing gas boiler with underfloor heating (also in the basement). Suggestions are welcome here as well.
If you had to give up, which details/extensions
- Could you do without: Everything is already planned very functionally in our opinion, so no "frills," no oversized bathrooms, etc. Well, except for the hobby room, I know
- Could you not do without: See above.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters
How can the kitchen be designed/integrated properly, staircase better placed, parents’ bathroom improved, and upper floor clarified further?
Yes, a house without land is called a castle in the air.
If you ever have one, remember where you will park the stroller for child number 3. Even if wide hallways are seen as unnecessary, there are people on earth—including those who use walkers at a more advanced age, something you might become one day—who will appreciate this.
If you ever have one, remember where you will park the stroller for child number 3. Even if wide hallways are seen as unnecessary, there are people on earth—including those who use walkers at a more advanced age, something you might become one day—who will appreciate this.
kaho674 schrieb:
Hello @HsweetH,
A discussion about the floor plan without having the land plot is unfortunately completely pointless. Come back once you have the plot secured. Good luck with your search! Indeed, it is difficult to find a plot between Bonn and the northern tip of Rhineland-Palatinate that is not either completely remote or unaffordable... The land plot has additionally been budgeted at around 200,000 euros (about $200,000). I actually thought something could be found for that.
danixf schrieb:
b) Something seems to be missing from the numbers. There are additional ancillary costs. Have you accounted for those? Including additional costs, you’ll easily pay over 500,000 euros (about $500,000) for the house. Budgeted are:
Base house price 415,000 euros (about $415,000)
Additional construction costs 35,000 euros (about $35,000)
Land plot 200,000 euros (about $200,000)
Acquisition costs 35,000 euros (about $35,000)
Is this completely unrealistic? Personally, I am most concerned about the costs for earthworks because I suspect that’s the biggest cost driver if the “wrong” plot is chosen.
ypg schrieb:
Apart from the fact that you could make the bedroom 30cm (12 inches) narrower to give more width to the right side of the plan (kitchen, guest room), I don’t understand why you have to access the basement through the kitchen.
Otherwise, the bathroom dimensions as they are now are well furnished and acceptable.
Thanks a lot, that already helps a lot! I honestly hadn’t thought of that idea. Thanks also for the assessment of the bathroom dimensions.
Here’s another “dumb” question: Assuming we make the bedroom 50cm (20 inches) narrower, would this affect the structural integrity of the house, or would the floor plan even be feasible then?
That doesn’t add up. For a basement suitable for living with a ceiling height of 2.70 meters (8 feet 10 inches), you already have to pay quite a lot, plus another 170 sq meters (1830 sq ft)... I’m expecting a 5 at the start. With additional construction costs and the usual extras, then 600,000.
Then you have to consider that the plot might not be suitable for a basement or that the orientation of the plot is wrong.
And apparently, there are no more affordable prime layouts near you, otherwise you would already have one.
The basement is planned as an insulated basement (ISO basement) with underfloor heating, external wall reinforcement to 24cm (9.5 inches), waterproofing against rising seepage water, complete electrical installation, etc., but WITHOUT flooring and painting work (that would be our job).
Is the price really that cheap? It’s from one of the major prefab home manufacturers... not the cheapest but certainly not top of the line either.
hampshire schrieb:
Planning a house without having a plot of land is like organizing a wedding without the bride.
Furthermore:
A seller who designs a floor plan for you without you owning a plot of land is either an amateur. Don’t buy from amateurs. A right of withdrawal free of charge would be agreed upon if no suitable plot is found. The advantage when signing the contract is that the prefab company assists in finding suitable land. Of course, they won’t do that if you don’t have a contract with them... with the right of withdrawal, I don’t see any disadvantages for us—am I overlooking something?
11ant schrieb:
It’s hard to disagree that this is indeed "quite special" – however, the term "insufficient" certainly applies just as much to the design shown. Fitting all the requirements into a conventional two-story 10 by 10 meter (33 by 33 feet) city villa would already be a real challenge, but doing so in a one-and-a-half-story house with the same footprint is even less feasible (a knee wall instead of a full dormer doesn’t solve this). At that point, it might almost be more practical to blow up a balloon right next to a needle – some slight compromise between the wishes and the framework will definitely have to be made. Hmm, I’m curious where you see the biggest problems or "impossibilities"... fundamentally, our wishes have been implemented. The special interest aspect (hobby room) requires the basement, and having four rooms on the upper floor isn’t that unusual, is it?