ᐅ Underfloor heating in the children's room? Some rooms planned without underfloor heating? Removing the air-to-water heat pump?
Created on: 18 Dec 2019 21:20
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ludwig88sta
Hello everyone,
I'll briefly introduce the topic:
We are planning a two-story single-family house of about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) with a basement, built with Poroton 42cm (16.5 inches) bricks and as much photovoltaic system as possible on the roof. Since we want to insulate well not only with the bricks but also with the windows, the base slab, the basement, etc., we are considering an air-to-water heat pump (following the motto "a well-insulated house doesn’t need a huge heating system").
Now we are wondering whether we should install underfloor heating in the bedroom or children’s rooms at all, because it is said to be slow to react and can cause uncomfortable temperatures in summer, which again leads to poor sleep. Also, different temperatures are needed in sleeping areas than in living areas. Of course, children’s rooms are tricky since they are used for both activities in the afternoon and for sleeping at night.
We want to install underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining area, living room, and of course the bathroom. Can you plan for two different supply temperatures for the underfloor heating (one warmer for kitchen/dining, living room, bathroom, study and one cooler for bedrooms and kids’ rooms)? What about rooms like the hobby room or guest room? My wife often makes wreaths or works on crafts in the hobby room, so it definitely does not need to be as warm as the living room. The guest room we would not want to heat throughout the entire heating season, but only when guests are actually staying.
However, I read that underfloor heating works best when water is circulated continuously? What is recommended for guest rooms or hobby rooms? The quickest way to heat them would probably be with conventional radiators rather than underfloor heating? But what I have read so far suggests that air-to-water heat pumps may not be ideal for that. Should we consider a gas boiler instead (connection available on the property)? Or is it possible to operate underfloor heating with an air-to-water heat pump with different supply temperature circuits (1) living areas 2) sleeping areas 3) rooms heated only as needed)?
This sentence made me doubt:
I understand this to mean that the whole house should be heated with one supply temperature, ideally all through underfloor heating. Of course, with multiple circuits since each circuit should not exceed 80/100 meters (260/330 feet) in length (pressure loss, etc.). But all with the same supply temperature, otherwise that would be individual room control again, which should not be installed.
I hope you can shed some light on this.
Underfloor heating is very important to my wife, so we won’t avoid it. The question is what we do with the hobby room, which needs much less heating (or also the bedrooms and kids’ rooms?), and the guest room, which is heated much less often. Is that even possible with underfloor heating and an air-to-water heat pump?
Have a great evening and enjoy the upcoming pre-Christmas season.
I’m really impressed by the many helpful people here who support future homeowners like me, who don’t just go to a general contractor and say “Do it and give me the keys sometime, I don’t care about the details,” but who want to dive into all the different trades involved. At the same time, it can be overwhelming and confusing due to the huge amount of information available online, especially with little prior experience.
I'll briefly introduce the topic:
We are planning a two-story single-family house of about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) with a basement, built with Poroton 42cm (16.5 inches) bricks and as much photovoltaic system as possible on the roof. Since we want to insulate well not only with the bricks but also with the windows, the base slab, the basement, etc., we are considering an air-to-water heat pump (following the motto "a well-insulated house doesn’t need a huge heating system").
Now we are wondering whether we should install underfloor heating in the bedroom or children’s rooms at all, because it is said to be slow to react and can cause uncomfortable temperatures in summer, which again leads to poor sleep. Also, different temperatures are needed in sleeping areas than in living areas. Of course, children’s rooms are tricky since they are used for both activities in the afternoon and for sleeping at night.
We want to install underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining area, living room, and of course the bathroom. Can you plan for two different supply temperatures for the underfloor heating (one warmer for kitchen/dining, living room, bathroom, study and one cooler for bedrooms and kids’ rooms)? What about rooms like the hobby room or guest room? My wife often makes wreaths or works on crafts in the hobby room, so it definitely does not need to be as warm as the living room. The guest room we would not want to heat throughout the entire heating season, but only when guests are actually staying.
However, I read that underfloor heating works best when water is circulated continuously? What is recommended for guest rooms or hobby rooms? The quickest way to heat them would probably be with conventional radiators rather than underfloor heating? But what I have read so far suggests that air-to-water heat pumps may not be ideal for that. Should we consider a gas boiler instead (connection available on the property)? Or is it possible to operate underfloor heating with an air-to-water heat pump with different supply temperature circuits (1) living areas 2) sleeping areas 3) rooms heated only as needed)?
This sentence made me doubt:
"To ensure optimal operation of the heat pump, underfloor heating should not have individual room control installed."(Source: Bundesverband Flächenheizung e.V.)
I understand this to mean that the whole house should be heated with one supply temperature, ideally all through underfloor heating. Of course, with multiple circuits since each circuit should not exceed 80/100 meters (260/330 feet) in length (pressure loss, etc.). But all with the same supply temperature, otherwise that would be individual room control again, which should not be installed.
I hope you can shed some light on this.
Underfloor heating is very important to my wife, so we won’t avoid it. The question is what we do with the hobby room, which needs much less heating (or also the bedrooms and kids’ rooms?), and the guest room, which is heated much less often. Is that even possible with underfloor heating and an air-to-water heat pump?
Have a great evening and enjoy the upcoming pre-Christmas season.
I’m really impressed by the many helpful people here who support future homeowners like me, who don’t just go to a general contractor and say “Do it and give me the keys sometime, I don’t care about the details,” but who want to dive into all the different trades involved. At the same time, it can be overwhelming and confusing due to the huge amount of information available online, especially with little prior experience.
L
ludwig88sta20 Dec 2019 09:22The ERR, which is required by the energy saving regulations for surface heating systems, is actually unnecessary due to the low supply temperatures and the well-insulated solid construction of the houses (thanks to the self-regulating effect): I plan to just tell the heating installer that I do not want to install an ERR despite the regulation and hope he accepts it without arguing, "We have to install them, otherwise we as a company would be violating regulations." What are the experiences with this? If he insists on strictly following the energy saving regulations, do I need to look for another heating installer?
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boxandroof20 Dec 2019 12:10Controlled mechanical ventilation does not provide significant cooling; it only slows down the warming if you can keep the windows closed during the day. Underfloor heating can also only be used to cool a large area by a few degrees. I’m not sure how effective an earth tube would be, but every measure helps.
If cooling is very important to you in summer, then plan for an air conditioning system.
In our case, the bedroom is the coolest room in winter (18°C [64°F]). The adjoining bathroom does not exceed 21°C (70°F), which was part of our design. Everything works great.
In midsummer, unfortunately, our north-facing bedroom is about 1-2°C (2-4°F) warmer than the other rooms. It is small and has quite a lot of supply air from the mechanical ventilation system (heat recovery losses), but the main reason is the body heat generated inside, which is almost enough to heat the room even in deep winter.
If cooling is very important to you in summer, then plan for an air conditioning system.
In our case, the bedroom is the coolest room in winter (18°C [64°F]). The adjoining bathroom does not exceed 21°C (70°F), which was part of our design. Everything works great.
In midsummer, unfortunately, our north-facing bedroom is about 1-2°C (2-4°F) warmer than the other rooms. It is small and has quite a lot of supply air from the mechanical ventilation system (heat recovery losses), but the main reason is the body heat generated inside, which is almost enough to heat the room even in deep winter.
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ludwig88sta20 Dec 2019 12:38No, cooled rooms (such as those with air conditioning) are not that important to us. However, I want to avoid the rooms reaching around 27°C (81°F) in summer. In this case, shading is the right solution.
We are also aware that in modern houses, all rooms within the building envelope have roughly the same temperature due to underfloor heating, unlike in older buildings where one room can be 24°C (75°F) and the neighboring one 15°C (59°F).
But we are aware of the possibility of cooling through controlled residential ventilation by mixing in cold air from an earth air tunnel and/or cooling via the ground loop heat pump with a horizontal collector. We will discuss this with our architect.
We are also aware that in modern houses, all rooms within the building envelope have roughly the same temperature due to underfloor heating, unlike in older buildings where one room can be 24°C (75°F) and the neighboring one 15°C (59°F).
But we are aware of the possibility of cooling through controlled residential ventilation by mixing in cold air from an earth air tunnel and/or cooling via the ground loop heat pump with a horizontal collector. We will discuss this with our architect.
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ludwig88sta20 Dec 2019 12:43fragg schrieb:
Yes, that could be done. But it’s a bad idea and no one does it. If you need temperature differences of 7 degrees between different rooms to be happy, your only option is an old building. The members here in the forum have hinted at this, but exceptionally I’ll be direct. It won’t work and it’s a mess.To pick this up again: I have a two-story single-family house with a basement, where the basement is included in the building envelope (meaning it is insulated on the outside accordingly). Now I want to set up one room in the basement as a pantry/wine cellar, which should have the lowest possible temperature of all rooms in the house.
Would it be incorrect to insulate this single room "pantry/wine cellar" on the inside with XPS or EPS against the “heat” from the surrounding rooms and completely omit the underfloor heating there? Why?
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