ᐅ Underfloor heating in the children's room? Some rooms planned without underfloor heating? Removing the air-to-water heat pump?

Created on: 18 Dec 2019 21:20
L
ludwig88sta
Hello everyone,

I'll briefly introduce the topic:
We are planning a two-story single-family house of about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) with a basement, built with Poroton 42cm (16.5 inches) bricks and as much photovoltaic system as possible on the roof. Since we want to insulate well not only with the bricks but also with the windows, the base slab, the basement, etc., we are considering an air-to-water heat pump (following the motto "a well-insulated house doesn’t need a huge heating system").

Now we are wondering whether we should install underfloor heating in the bedroom or children’s rooms at all, because it is said to be slow to react and can cause uncomfortable temperatures in summer, which again leads to poor sleep. Also, different temperatures are needed in sleeping areas than in living areas. Of course, children’s rooms are tricky since they are used for both activities in the afternoon and for sleeping at night.

We want to install underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining area, living room, and of course the bathroom. Can you plan for two different supply temperatures for the underfloor heating (one warmer for kitchen/dining, living room, bathroom, study and one cooler for bedrooms and kids’ rooms)? What about rooms like the hobby room or guest room? My wife often makes wreaths or works on crafts in the hobby room, so it definitely does not need to be as warm as the living room. The guest room we would not want to heat throughout the entire heating season, but only when guests are actually staying.

However, I read that underfloor heating works best when water is circulated continuously? What is recommended for guest rooms or hobby rooms? The quickest way to heat them would probably be with conventional radiators rather than underfloor heating? But what I have read so far suggests that air-to-water heat pumps may not be ideal for that. Should we consider a gas boiler instead (connection available on the property)? Or is it possible to operate underfloor heating with an air-to-water heat pump with different supply temperature circuits (1) living areas 2) sleeping areas 3) rooms heated only as needed)?

This sentence made me doubt:
"To ensure optimal operation of the heat pump, underfloor heating should not have individual room control installed."
(Source: Bundesverband Flächenheizung e.V.)

I understand this to mean that the whole house should be heated with one supply temperature, ideally all through underfloor heating. Of course, with multiple circuits since each circuit should not exceed 80/100 meters (260/330 feet) in length (pressure loss, etc.). But all with the same supply temperature, otherwise that would be individual room control again, which should not be installed.

I hope you can shed some light on this.

Underfloor heating is very important to my wife, so we won’t avoid it. The question is what we do with the hobby room, which needs much less heating (or also the bedrooms and kids’ rooms?), and the guest room, which is heated much less often. Is that even possible with underfloor heating and an air-to-water heat pump?

Have a great evening and enjoy the upcoming pre-Christmas season.

I’m really impressed by the many helpful people here who support future homeowners like me, who don’t just go to a general contractor and say “Do it and give me the keys sometime, I don’t care about the details,” but who want to dive into all the different trades involved. At the same time, it can be overwhelming and confusing due to the huge amount of information available online, especially with little prior experience.
M
Müllerin
19 Dec 2019 12:53
ludwig88sta schrieb:

I want to involve science/medicine here, which as far as I know recommends keeping the bedroom temperature clearly below 20°C (68°F). But to each their own.

Since you mentioned ventilation, do you have a ventilation system? Can it also be used to cool the room during summer when temperatures in room XY exceed XX°C (XX°F)? Of course, that depends on the heating system—if you have an air-to-water heat pump, you cool using electricity. But with a ground loop brine heat pump, cooling is easier in summer since the ground temperature stays well below the 30°C (86°F) air temperature during the day, right?

Hmm, sure—but what about the millions of people living in southern countries? Do they all live unhealthily because they have to sleep in warmer conditions?
Well, let’s leave it at that.

Yes, we have a ventilation system, but without air conditioning. Maybe we will retrofit one if our summers get longer and hotter.
And as long as you don’t have air conditioning, even with a heat exchanger, you can only cool a warm house if you can draw cooler air from outside. And even if it’s cooler outside, the system’s capacity is usually not sufficient—that’s not what these systems are designed for.

Whether this can work with a ground-source heat pump, probably yes, but I haven’t looked into that further.
J
Joedreck
19 Dec 2019 12:57
With early planning, an air well can be installed.
L
ludwig88sta
19 Dec 2019 12:57
That is why households in southern countries very often have air conditioning—unlike here in Germany, where air conditioning is still rather rare [B]. Depending on where and how long climate change goes, it is possible that in 50–100 years, similar to southern countries, we will all have air conditioning in Germany as well.

Yes, the trench collector brine heat pump is also supposed to be able to provide cooling in the summer with the appropriate technology.
L
ludwig88sta
19 Dec 2019 13:07
Joedreck schrieb:

With early planning, an air well can be installed.

Never heard of that before. A very good ecological and economical tip when combined with a ventilation system.
T
Tego12
19 Dec 2019 13:07
A ground source heat pump can provide cooling, which I personally think is a great feature. Of course, you shouldn’t expect the effect of an air conditioner, but you can lower the temperature in the house by 2 to 3 degrees Celsius (4 to 6 degrees Fahrenheit), which is very comfortable, especially with almost no ongoing costs.

The cooling effect through controlled residential ventilation (e.g., via an earth tube) is significantly smaller, almost negligible. This makes sense physically because air is a very poor medium for transferring heat or cold.
C
Curly
19 Dec 2019 13:08
So the kids’ rooms need to be especially warm for us right now, definitely not below 22°C (72°F), otherwise they get cold.
We currently have underfloor heating in the living room at 23°C (73°F), and the bedroom at 21°C (70°F). It is also possible to have only 19°C (66°F) in the bedroom, but that feels too cold for us.

Best regards,
Sabine