ᐅ Solid Construction House: Which Type of Brick or Block?

First of all:

face26 schrieb:

I consider this discussion completely overrated.

Exactly. The moon doesn't care whether a single homeowner complains or forum members argue over a singer dispute. Still, I would like to

guckuck2 schrieb:

Reacted to 11ant’s physical principle, which is simply wrong.

not leave this unchallenged, because nothing was wrong: I pointed out that 1. mineral wool is a tangled mass, meaning it consists of intertwined fibers, and the rigidity moment of this mutual spatial entanglement more than adequately counteracts the gravity effect on individual fibers, so fatigue of the structure in each fiber only has a minor effect; 2. each cavity in a hollow block has a tall and narrow cross-section, i.e., a slender profile, meaning the spring-like structure of the tangled fibers cannot easily escape sideways when compressed by its own weight. Furthermore, 3. any slight possible settling is limited by the fact that every quarter meter (approximately 10 inches) a mortar joint locks the fall — this also applies to loose-fill material.

guckuck2 schrieb:

Mineral wool settles when wet.

That is correct, but this effect is far more dramatic in batt insulation placed in air gaps between wall layers than inside hollow block cavities, which are also much less exposed to water ingress. In an air gap, this problem occurs more frequently, whereas a hollow block chamber would have to have a crack or a mortar joint leaking water — that is, after a pipe break, this phenomenon might be expected.

Loose-fill materials generally settle much more because, over the long term, continuous thermal movement and small vibrations cause a tetris-like rearrangement reducing voids. Note that this applies b) again only within one course of blocks, and a) brings us back to the beginning of the post.
First of all:

face26 schrieb:

I consider this discussion completely overrated.

Returning to the core insight that the world will not end because of this. If these phenomena related to stone infills had dramatic relevance, thermal imaging of such houses after 20 years should reveal noticeable layer lines at the top edge of each block course — or is it just my limited knowledge that I’m not aware of such images? Surely some doomsayer on YouTube would have broadcast this by now.

Seriously: the tendency of today’s generation of “informed consumers” to perform prenatal diagnostics on their dream houses has, in my opinion, reached pathological levels. The saying that “the devil is in the details” is often taken far too literally and turned into a general suspicion of every detail.

ludwig88sta schrieb:

@11ant do you mean mineral wool or also perlite blocks by “creme slices”? Why do you think little of them?

In general, when it comes to “filling hollow block cavities,” I feel product developers must have gotten inspiration from looking at Swiss rolls in the bakery window, ideas you’d expect more from hash cookie manufacturers. I’m still waiting for someone to fill hollow block chambers not with fibers, granules, or mortar-like creams, but with aloe vera gel. Promotion week at the building materials supplier: Poroton with wild garlic, or something like that. In the past, people used to go have a good laugh in the basement without even checking whether it was made of waterproof concrete — if you catch my drift…

With all due respect to the “once-in-a-lifetime” feeling, I just can’t laugh enough at how some people make a multi-voiced fuss about every single detail in all facets, while right next to them happy homeowners build a simple “House of Nicholas 113” without a rain shower and even with a kitchen integrated into the door space. People google way too much minor trivialities and too little Pareto.

By the way, I’m happily living in pumice concrete and have never once asked my landlord if he is gluten-free.

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lucciano-s schrieb:

I'm currently considering using insulated bricks with mineral wool, but I'm worried about mold growth. Do you have any opinions on this?

Yep... that's nonsense.

lucciano-s schrieb:

I'm currently considering using insulated bricks with mineral wool, but I'm worried about mold growth. Do you have any thoughts on this?

You don’t need to worry. Where would the mold even come from?

guckuck2 schrieb:

Have you ever actually cut into a wall and proven otherwise?
Did I claim that mineral wool compresses within masonry? No, I did not. I was responding to 11ant’s physical principle, which is simply incorrect.

Mineral wool does compress when wet. You can read that in any application guideline for such a product. Whether this regularly happens in masonry, we cannot know here. However, the physical property exists, unlike with perlite, so 11ant’s statement is wrong.

Of course, mineral wool compresses if it gets wet, but only if it remains wet over time. And how often does that actually happen in masonry?

Honestly, I don’t think you have ever held a Unipor brick yourself. Friends of ours have built with these bricks, and together with my buddy, we experimented with 2–3 of these units before construction because he also had that concern. Even with continuous spraying from a handheld shower for several hours, no real compression of the filling could be detected. Both he and I then built with these bricks.

During the construction phase, our builders—different companies, by the way—were very careful to ensure that the top of the walls were properly covered.

11ant schrieb:

People Google too much on trivial stuff and too little on Pareto.

Thank you for your detailed response.
However, I believe that researching the type of brick or block for building a house, which a) costs a significant amount of money and b) is supposed to last as promised for a long time, is not trivial at all.

What are your Pareto points?

@lucciano-s Which brick exactly? UNIPOR, or?

lucciano-s schrieb:

using insulated bricks with mineral wool, but worried about mold growth

face26 schrieb:

Yep...that's nonsense.

Let’s unpack that nonsense anyway, meaning let’s take the concern seriously as a working hypothesis: what happens in the worst case?
So, let’s assume that mold does develop inside the cavities. What would it most likely colonize? – the fibers of the mineral wool. There isn’t much air movement inside the cavities, so the fungal spores settle (according to our assumption!) along the fibers, eventually lining the cavity walls. Could they draw nutrients from the mortar joints? – probably not. Could they then migrate through the mortar into the plaster? – very unlikely: chemically and also because the osmotic pressure is probably too low here. That leaves – assuming the cavity is contaminated – the possibility that it gets drilled into, and through that opening mold could spread. However, this still would not lead to significant contamination of the indoor air. That’s my detailed explanation – so you see: yes, it’s nonsense, but this was the “reasoning” behind it.

ludwig88sta schrieb:

that searching online for information about the type of stone he is building his house with, which a) costs a lot of money and b) is expected to last as promised for a long time, is not nonsense

Searching for information is certainly a responsible approach. However, I recommend keeping the depth of research within the broad range of available options – which rarely include extremes like "messiah" or "devil," and often not even near-extremes like a "miracle solution" or "disaster." Furthermore, I doubt that Excel spreadsheets are a useful tool for processing all parameters from datasheets found across the internet. Building without accepting some residual risk is only possible in theory. And although the world isn’t perfect, not every building material manufacturer has to be a charlatan. Some builders seem to live in a constant fear that certain building materials are like magic ink, and their beautiful house would suddenly become invisible shortly after paying off the mortgage, just because they chose “the wrong stone” (which, in my opinion, doesn’t exist any more than the “stone of the wise”). Every building material has its pros and cons; the mythical “Wolpertinger building materials company” has not yet been founded – presumably due to a lack of invention geniuses on the job market.

ludwig88sta schrieb:

What are your Pareto points?

I don’t quite understand the question but assume it reflects unfamiliarity with the mentioned person: the Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto formulated a theorem according to which the slope of a cost-benefit ratio rises so sharply beyond eighty percent of target achievement that dissatisfaction of those still pushing further can only be outdone by Sisyphus himself. And that’s what I mean by “nonsense”: not the stone itself, but continuing the search for an even better building material when one already has a more than sufficiently good one – the additional possible “gain” is no longer worth the lifetime wasted on “information” searching.

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