Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
Der Da schrieb:
Well, a photovoltaic system is generally a great thing if you can afford to invest the necessary funds or are willing to take on the cost. I would also agree that such a system will eventually pay off. But, as mentioned, every budget comes to an end at some point. This is probably true in 99.99% of cases. Therefore, the goal is to use the investment as economically and effectively as possible. There are countless ways to limit the overall investment, especially when you separate unnecessary expenses from essential requirements. Best regards
H
Häuslebauer4012 Jul 2012 13:11€uro schrieb:
If using an air source heat pump, it should only be one with full modulation! Unfortunately, these providers don’t offer that! Rotex doesn’t either? According to their product description, they should actually be able to do that.
B
Bauexperte12 Jul 2012 13:44Hello,
Experience from last year...
Based on calculations and the overall situation, we planned to install a Japanese air-to-water heat pump (split system) for a client’s two-story semi-detached house; price, performance, and customer service were all excellent. The only problem was that the father (it’s always the fathers :rolleyes) thought he knew better. Paraphrased original statement: “These units are no good and way too loud. The air-to-water heat pumps from an Austrian supplier are better and much quieter.” You should know that we designed the house so that the path from the utility room to the garage was very short—the outdoor unit was supposed to be installed on the garage; the size of the utility room overall was planned around the technology of the Japanese supplier.
As expected, the father got his way; he covered the additional investment of about 6,000 euros and now the situation is as follows: in front of the semi-detached house (street side, in front of the kitchen window), there is an outdoor unit pointing its fan upwards, measuring 1.20 x 1.20 x 1.20 meters (4 x 4 x 4 feet), which is realistically only about 2 dB quieter (the father apparently did not read the legal limits regarding maximum allowed noise levels of outdoor units). The utility room is only partially accessible because, in addition to the 300-liter (80-gallon) storage tank, an 850-liter (225-gallon) tank for heating support was added. The highlight, however, was the father’s answer when I asked about the utility room door, which remained firmly closed during our visit: the system is so loud that they prefer to keep the door closed. BUT outside, it’s “nicely” quiet, isn’t it?
Best regards
Der Da schrieb:
.... But I can hear those things.
Experience from last year...
Based on calculations and the overall situation, we planned to install a Japanese air-to-water heat pump (split system) for a client’s two-story semi-detached house; price, performance, and customer service were all excellent. The only problem was that the father (it’s always the fathers :rolleyes) thought he knew better. Paraphrased original statement: “These units are no good and way too loud. The air-to-water heat pumps from an Austrian supplier are better and much quieter.” You should know that we designed the house so that the path from the utility room to the garage was very short—the outdoor unit was supposed to be installed on the garage; the size of the utility room overall was planned around the technology of the Japanese supplier.
As expected, the father got his way; he covered the additional investment of about 6,000 euros and now the situation is as follows: in front of the semi-detached house (street side, in front of the kitchen window), there is an outdoor unit pointing its fan upwards, measuring 1.20 x 1.20 x 1.20 meters (4 x 4 x 4 feet), which is realistically only about 2 dB quieter (the father apparently did not read the legal limits regarding maximum allowed noise levels of outdoor units). The utility room is only partially accessible because, in addition to the 300-liter (80-gallon) storage tank, an 850-liter (225-gallon) tank for heating support was added. The highlight, however, was the father’s answer when I asked about the utility room door, which remained firmly closed during our visit: the system is so loud that they prefer to keep the door closed. BUT outside, it’s “nicely” quiet, isn’t it?
Best regards
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
Rotex not either? According to their product description, they should actually be capable of that. Colorful marketing material is only binding in the sense of brochure liability. You can still sue the issuer afterwards. For planning and sizing, only published, provided heating capacity and COP performance curves are valid. These also show the full modulation range. Despite inquiries, I see nothing from this supplier! Best regards.
Thank you for the answers so far...
What exactly is a solar thermal system combined with gas?
So, do I need a fully modulating air source heat pump, which is probably even more expensive?
You could also name a few devices, because without that, I’m no wiser than before.
Today I visited a 150m² (1,615 sq ft) show house equipped with a new Vaillant air source heat pump. The consumption display showed something like 14,000 kWh. The previous winter was also shown on the graph. When I convert that into electricity costs, it comes to over 200€ per month... that seems quite high, or have I miscalculated? The pump was installed by Vaillant. Of course, nobody is actually showering in the show house.
What exactly is a solar thermal system combined with gas?
So, do I need a fully modulating air source heat pump, which is probably even more expensive?
You could also name a few devices, because without that, I’m no wiser than before.
Today I visited a 150m² (1,615 sq ft) show house equipped with a new Vaillant air source heat pump. The consumption display showed something like 14,000 kWh. The previous winter was also shown on the graph. When I convert that into electricity costs, it comes to over 200€ per month... that seems quite high, or have I miscalculated? The pump was installed by Vaillant. Of course, nobody is actually showering in the show house.
Bauexperte schrieb:
.....Based on feedback from our homeowners, I can tell you that the energy costs for an air-to-water heat pump for a family of four—assuming precise planning and sizing—typically range around €600–800 per year for heating and hot water, depending on heating needs and shower habits. Gas usually costs about €200 more per year. However, this cannot be applied directly in every case; careful planning and calculation are essential. .....
Hello Bauexperte,
Judging by the consumption figures, are all your homeowners from the Rhineland region?
Best regards and have a great weekend
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