Hello everyone,
We are currently looking for a developer for our house. At the same time, of course, we are also focusing on the right design, features, and price of the house.
Building a house is truly an adventure, and as you can imagine, there are a thousand questions and it’s hard to know where to start.
What I would like to know here is whether we are on the right track with a specific offer and if it can be implemented without any major concerns.
The key details are as follows:
Single-family house with approximately 140m² (1,507 sq ft) of living space, gable roof without dormers, KfW 70 standard, and
- central mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
- triple glazing with a U-value of 0.5
- solar rooftop system for domestic hot water with a 300-liter (79-gallon) storage tank
- roller shutters on the ground floor and upper floor
- underfloor heating return circuits in bathroom and kitchen
- triangular windows in the gable ends
The price for the whole package is supposed to be 180,000 euros. Overall, I find the price fair, but of course I’m also interested in your opinion.
Then I have a few more questions:
1. The construction description has very little information about the ventilation system installation. Should I follow up on this?
2. A condensing boiler from Vaillant, Junkers, Elco, or equivalent will be installed. Is this recommended, or are there specific things I should look out for?
3. What other aspects of the construction description should I pay attention to before accepting the offer? Are there any critical points I should be aware of?
Looking forward to your answers.
Best regards,
Matthias
We are currently looking for a developer for our house. At the same time, of course, we are also focusing on the right design, features, and price of the house.
Building a house is truly an adventure, and as you can imagine, there are a thousand questions and it’s hard to know where to start.
What I would like to know here is whether we are on the right track with a specific offer and if it can be implemented without any major concerns.
The key details are as follows:
Single-family house with approximately 140m² (1,507 sq ft) of living space, gable roof without dormers, KfW 70 standard, and
- central mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
- triple glazing with a U-value of 0.5
- solar rooftop system for domestic hot water with a 300-liter (79-gallon) storage tank
- roller shutters on the ground floor and upper floor
- underfloor heating return circuits in bathroom and kitchen
- triangular windows in the gable ends
The price for the whole package is supposed to be 180,000 euros. Overall, I find the price fair, but of course I’m also interested in your opinion.
Then I have a few more questions:
1. The construction description has very little information about the ventilation system installation. Should I follow up on this?
2. A condensing boiler from Vaillant, Junkers, Elco, or equivalent will be installed. Is this recommended, or are there specific things I should look out for?
3. What other aspects of the construction description should I pay attention to before accepting the offer? Are there any critical points I should be aware of?
Looking forward to your answers.
Best regards,
Matthias
B
Bauexperte18 Jun 2012 22:21Hello Matthias,
Does the base price mean roughly €1,100.00/sqm (approximately $130/sqft)? Where do you end up with all the extras included?
Is the base price about €1,250.00/sqm (around $150/sqft)? Including the extras, this offer seems more realistic.
Base price is roughly €1,300.00/sqm (around $160/sqft) – I have already commented on the rest.
Put differently – what good is a potential “bargain” if later—when all extras, additional construction costs, and upgrades are included—it turns out to be a market-standard offer, but you have already fixed your financing based on the initial figures?
There are quite a few providers who compete solely on price; in fairness, I have to add that they are just reacting to the market 🙄
They offer a very basic house at a price per square meter between roughly €1,000.00 and €1,100.00/sqm (about $115–$130/sqft) to “attract leads.” Only upon closer inspection of the building specifications does it become clear that this “bargain” is not really a bargain, as the “eye-catcher” price only covers a closed shell. Then extras are purchased, and the final sale price approaches market conditions again. The problem is that these providers often apply the same approach to typical additional construction costs. Sometimes they “forget” to mention that property transfer tax applies to both the house and the plot when there is a financial link between the land seller and builder. This can be disastrous with a tight budget, as these costs tend to add up!
As a layperson, you probably won’t recognize this easily—if at all—unless you ask a lot of questions and do thorough research. In such cases, a visit to a new development area can be very helpful. Find one near you and visit on a weekend; there are always homeowners there—very likely from the three offers you mentioned—and if they can speak openly (i.e., no builder or sales staff nearby), you will usually get honest information. Furthermore, it is generally advisable to have the complete contract documents reviewed externally before signing the construction contract!
Best regards
Matthias182 schrieb:
So far, I have three offers:
1. Nationwide mass provider:
Base price 153,400.00
Solar system, insulation, underfloor heating, controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery, solid walls in the attic, shutters, triple glazing all extra
Does the base price mean roughly €1,100.00/sqm (approximately $130/sqft)? Where do you end up with all the extras included?
Matthias182 schrieb:
2. Local builder A
Base price around 173,550
Underfloor heating + 5,850
Central ventilation + 10,620
Electric shutters + 10,300
Solar system for hot water + 4,820
Is the base price about €1,250.00/sqm (around $150/sqft)? Including the extras, this offer seems more realistic.
Matthias182 schrieb:
3. Local builder B
As described in the first post.
All inclusive for 180,000
Base price is roughly €1,300.00/sqm (around $160/sqft) – I have already commented on the rest.
Matthias182 schrieb:
Where do the additional costs arise later with the seemingly "too cheap" offers, and how can I recognize them?
Put differently – what good is a potential “bargain” if later—when all extras, additional construction costs, and upgrades are included—it turns out to be a market-standard offer, but you have already fixed your financing based on the initial figures?
There are quite a few providers who compete solely on price; in fairness, I have to add that they are just reacting to the market 🙄
They offer a very basic house at a price per square meter between roughly €1,000.00 and €1,100.00/sqm (about $115–$130/sqft) to “attract leads.” Only upon closer inspection of the building specifications does it become clear that this “bargain” is not really a bargain, as the “eye-catcher” price only covers a closed shell. Then extras are purchased, and the final sale price approaches market conditions again. The problem is that these providers often apply the same approach to typical additional construction costs. Sometimes they “forget” to mention that property transfer tax applies to both the house and the plot when there is a financial link between the land seller and builder. This can be disastrous with a tight budget, as these costs tend to add up!
As a layperson, you probably won’t recognize this easily—if at all—unless you ask a lot of questions and do thorough research. In such cases, a visit to a new development area can be very helpful. Find one near you and visit on a weekend; there are always homeowners there—very likely from the three offers you mentioned—and if they can speak openly (i.e., no builder or sales staff nearby), you will usually get honest information. Furthermore, it is generally advisable to have the complete contract documents reviewed externally before signing the construction contract!
Best regards
M
Matthias18227 Jun 2012 08:47Hello everyone,
Although I haven’t posted here in a while, I have continued working on the house construction project. Based on your suggestion, I have taken two steps.
1. I had the builder’s (general contractor’s) construction description, who is offering a competitive price, reviewed by an architect. The architect’s conclusion was that the description is very detailed. Only a few minor points were criticized:
• Building permit / planning permission and additional services caused by special regulations (according to development plan noise level zone III)
• Changes at the homeowner’s expense
• Insulation details unclear
• Surveyor office costs to be covered by the homeowner
• Free plot and construction access road at homeowner’s expense
• Drainage water from excavation to be covered by homeowner (rather unlikely due to no basement, but unusual—usually included)
• Home utility connections to be managed by homeowner
• Roof overhangs: profile boarding and white solid plastic profile boards
• Painting work not included
• Exact meaning of “bottom edge” for downpipes?
2. I also met with another architect and received an “offer.” He proposes to build the house at a fixed price (so I assume with a price ceiling). He explained the following:
“Single-family house, plastered, max. 130 m² (1400 square feet) of living space, excluding utility connection costs, standard design, 45° roof pitch, turnkey including construction and ancillary costs, 1 m (3.3 feet) knee wall, house according to planning or defined by living area in m², bathroom with underfloor heating as return flow heating, otherwise according to construction description, including architectural services, structural engineering, site supervision, construction management, soil report, surveying, insurance.”
131,890
Additional extras:
Walk-in shower in bathroom
Controlled ventilation system
Complete underfloor heating on ground and upper floors
Mechanical PVC shutters on ground and upper floors (with strap operation)
Facing brickwork including roll layers (price 500 per 1000 pieces)
All interior walls made of 17.5 cm (7 inches) aerated concrete blocks
Kitchen approx. 25 m² (270 square feet) (extra cost for tiles)
Roof covering with high-quality clay tiles
Trapezoidal dormer approx. 3.5 m (11.5 feet) wide, with 2 windows each 1.1 m (3.6 feet)
Glazed front door with fixed side panel approx. 50 cm (20 inches)
Additional secondary entrance door from laundry room to carport or garage
Windows and patio doors with triple glazing according to energy saving regulation 2009
Subfloor insulation according to energy saving regulation 2009
Painting work including materials and labor (including roof box)
50,940
The house is 10 m² (108 square feet) smaller than the other offers, but includes a dormer and the painting work.
I would appreciate your opinions here as well. I hope that with the support of the architects I am on the safer side.
Finally, I have one crucial question. If possible, we want to plan four bedrooms on the upper floor—that means a total of 5 rooms in the house. Would that be realistically possible and practical with a house size of around 130 m² (1400 square feet) according to DIN 277 and with the trapezoidal dormer?
Best regards,
Matthias
Although I haven’t posted here in a while, I have continued working on the house construction project. Based on your suggestion, I have taken two steps.
1. I had the builder’s (general contractor’s) construction description, who is offering a competitive price, reviewed by an architect. The architect’s conclusion was that the description is very detailed. Only a few minor points were criticized:
• Building permit / planning permission and additional services caused by special regulations (according to development plan noise level zone III)
• Changes at the homeowner’s expense
• Insulation details unclear
• Surveyor office costs to be covered by the homeowner
• Free plot and construction access road at homeowner’s expense
• Drainage water from excavation to be covered by homeowner (rather unlikely due to no basement, but unusual—usually included)
• Home utility connections to be managed by homeowner
• Roof overhangs: profile boarding and white solid plastic profile boards
• Painting work not included
• Exact meaning of “bottom edge” for downpipes?
2. I also met with another architect and received an “offer.” He proposes to build the house at a fixed price (so I assume with a price ceiling). He explained the following:
“Single-family house, plastered, max. 130 m² (1400 square feet) of living space, excluding utility connection costs, standard design, 45° roof pitch, turnkey including construction and ancillary costs, 1 m (3.3 feet) knee wall, house according to planning or defined by living area in m², bathroom with underfloor heating as return flow heating, otherwise according to construction description, including architectural services, structural engineering, site supervision, construction management, soil report, surveying, insurance.”
131,890
Additional extras:
Walk-in shower in bathroom
Controlled ventilation system
Complete underfloor heating on ground and upper floors
Mechanical PVC shutters on ground and upper floors (with strap operation)
Facing brickwork including roll layers (price 500 per 1000 pieces)
All interior walls made of 17.5 cm (7 inches) aerated concrete blocks
Kitchen approx. 25 m² (270 square feet) (extra cost for tiles)
Roof covering with high-quality clay tiles
Trapezoidal dormer approx. 3.5 m (11.5 feet) wide, with 2 windows each 1.1 m (3.6 feet)
Glazed front door with fixed side panel approx. 50 cm (20 inches)
Additional secondary entrance door from laundry room to carport or garage
Windows and patio doors with triple glazing according to energy saving regulation 2009
Subfloor insulation according to energy saving regulation 2009
Painting work including materials and labor (including roof box)
50,940
The house is 10 m² (108 square feet) smaller than the other offers, but includes a dormer and the painting work.
I would appreciate your opinions here as well. I hope that with the support of the architects I am on the safer side.
Finally, I have one crucial question. If possible, we want to plan four bedrooms on the upper floor—that means a total of 5 rooms in the house. Would that be realistically possible and practical with a house size of around 130 m² (1400 square feet) according to DIN 277 and with the trapezoidal dormer?
Best regards,
Matthias
Finally, one crucial question remains for me. If at all possible, we would like to plan four bedrooms on the upper floor. So, a total of 5 rooms in the house. Would that be reasonably feasible with the house size (130m² (1,400 sq ft) according to DIN 277) and the trapezoidal dormer?Probably not very practical... Unless you can accept rooms around 9-10m² (95-108 sq ft) in size...
B
Bauexperte27 Jun 2012 14:17Hello Matthias,
With all due respect, I guess he would like your signature 😉
Except for the item "insulation not clearly specified," these points are not grounds for complaint, but rather typical additional construction costs amounting to approximately 35,000 - 40,000 EUR.
He therefore acts as the general contractor and also takes on the warranty.
This is getting better 😕
I did a quick estimate and think this will be about 15,000 EUR more.
Honestly, the pricing in Schleswig-Holstein is not really my expertise; E.Curb will surely have an answer for that. But overall, I don't find this offer very seriously calculated either. In my opinion, this can only work if the architect cooperates with a low-cost builder. In that case, again, the construction description would be crucial.
It is possible; somehow. I have attached an upper floor plan with 4 rooms for you. However, 130 m² remains 130 m² and the individual children’s rooms will be small — around 10, 11, and 12 m² (110, 120, and 130 sq ft).
Best regards
Matthias182 schrieb:
1. I had the construction specifications of the general contractor offering the low price reviewed by an architect. The architect's conclusion was that the description is very detailed. Only a few minor points were criticized.
With all due respect, I guess he would like your signature 😉
Matthias182 schrieb:
• Building permit / planning permission and additional costs caused by special regulations (according to development plan, noise level zone III)
• Changes at the homeowner’s expense
• Surveying office at own cost
• Free plot and construction access road at homeowner’s expense
• Drainage of seepage water from the construction pit at own cost (rather unlikely due to no basement, but unusual, normally always included)
• Pay attention to house connections by the homeowner
• Roof overhangs: profiled cladding and white full plastic profile boards
• Painter trade not included
Except for the item "insulation not clearly specified," these points are not grounds for complaint, but rather typical additional construction costs amounting to approximately 35,000 - 40,000 EUR.
Matthias182 schrieb:
2. I met with another architect and received a “quote” there. He offers to build the house at a fixed price (so I assume with a price cap).
He therefore acts as the general contractor and also takes on the warranty.
Matthias182 schrieb:
He explained the following:
“Single-family house, plastered, max. 130 m² (1400 sq ft) living space, excluding house connection costs, roof insulation, 45° roof pitch, turnkey including construction and incidental costs, 1 m (3 ft) knee wall, house according to planning or defined by m² living space, bathroom with underfloor heating as return flow heating, otherwise according to construction description, including architectural services, structural engineering, site supervision, construction management, soil survey, surveying, insurance”
131,890 EUR
This is getting better 😕
Matthias182 schrieb:
Additional extras include:
floor-level shower in the bathroom
controlled ventilation system
complete underfloor heating on ground and upper floors
mechanical PVC roller shutters on ground and upper floors (with belt drive)
brick veneer including roll courses (price 500 EUR per 1,000 pieces)
all interior walls of aerated concrete 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick
kitchen approx. 25 m² (270 sq ft) (additional cost for tiling)
roof covering with glazed clay tiles
trapezoidal dormer approx. 3.50 m (11.5 ft) wide, 2 windows BH 1.10 m (3.6 ft)
front entrance door with fixed glazed sidelight approx. 50 cm (20 inches)
additional secondary entrance door from utility room to carport or garage
windows & patio doors with triple glazing according to 2009 energy saving ordinance
under-slab insulation according to 2009 energy saving ordinance
painting including materials and labor (including roof soffit)
50,940 EUR
The house is 10 m² (110 sq ft) smaller than the other offers, but includes a dormer and painting.
I did a quick estimate and think this will be about 15,000 EUR more.
Matthias182 schrieb:
I would be interested in your opinion again here. I hope that with the support of the architects, I am on the safer side.
Honestly, the pricing in Schleswig-Holstein is not really my expertise; E.Curb will surely have an answer for that. But overall, I don't find this offer very seriously calculated either. In my opinion, this can only work if the architect cooperates with a low-cost builder. In that case, again, the construction description would be crucial.
Matthias182 schrieb:
Finally, one important question remains for me. If possible, we want to plan for four bedrooms on the upper floor. So five rooms total in the house. Would this be realistically possible with the house size (130 m² according to DIN 277) and the trapezoidal dormer?
It is possible; somehow. I have attached an upper floor plan with 4 rooms for you. However, 130 m² remains 130 m² and the individual children’s rooms will be small — around 10, 11, and 12 m² (110, 120, and 130 sq ft).
Best regards
M
Matthias1825 Jul 2012 20:53Hello,
I have given up on the idea of having five rooms for the size of the house. The rooms would simply be too cramped. We have now received a first draft of a floor plan (from a nationwide provider).
I would be interested in your opinion on it. What would you maybe do differently?
Thanks and best regards,
Matthias
I have given up on the idea of having five rooms for the size of the house. The rooms would simply be too cramped. We have now received a first draft of a floor plan (from a nationwide provider).
I would be interested in your opinion on it. What would you maybe do differently?
Thanks and best regards,
Matthias
I find the guest toilet next to the entrance door too small, and it doesn’t even have a door 🙂 Depending on the building systems, the utility room might be too small because there is a wasted corner space.
You won’t be able to fit a cloakroom or shoe cabinet in the hallway.
Overall, there is very little wall space for shelves in the living area.
Upstairs, the floor plan is a very standard layout... so it’s okay.
Without a basement, it’s definitely going to feel tight. There isn’t much storage space with a room size upstairs of 15 sqm (161 sq ft). But it could work if you’re not the “collector” type. 🙂
You won’t be able to fit a cloakroom or shoe cabinet in the hallway.
Overall, there is very little wall space for shelves in the living area.
Upstairs, the floor plan is a very standard layout... so it’s okay.
Without a basement, it’s definitely going to feel tight. There isn’t much storage space with a room size upstairs of 15 sqm (161 sq ft). But it could work if you’re not the “collector” type. 🙂
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