ᐅ Installing oak parquet floorboards on underfloor heating using a clip system without adhesive
Created on: 28 Aug 2019 11:58
G
Gausek
We have underfloor heating embedded in the screed and want to use solid oak planks 20mm (3/4 inch) thick as our flooring. We don’t want to use adhesive because of all the emissions, even though that would obviously provide the best bonding.
Has anyone had experience with these clip systems where the planks are installed floating? The clips are supposedly placed either under the planks or between the wall and the planks.
Of course, it’s clear that the heat transfer won’t be as good as with glued flooring. That doesn’t bother me; we’ll simply heat a bit more if it’s not warm enough. By the way, we have a gas boiler.
So the specific question is: Has anyone had good or bad experiences with clip installation? Or did anyone have the floor lift up because the fastening method perhaps didn’t hold?
Thank you very much.
Has anyone had experience with these clip systems where the planks are installed floating? The clips are supposedly placed either under the planks or between the wall and the planks.
Of course, it’s clear that the heat transfer won’t be as good as with glued flooring. That doesn’t bother me; we’ll simply heat a bit more if it’s not warm enough. By the way, we have a gas boiler.
So the specific question is: Has anyone had good or bad experiences with clip installation? Or did anyone have the floor lift up because the fastening method perhaps didn’t hold?
Thank you very much.
Our tile adhesive is mineral-based. Almost all the furniture is made of solid wood, including the kitchen countertop. The walls are painted with silicate paints. Underneath the wooden floorboards, there is corrugated cardboard, and it is oiled with natural oil.
The kitchen cabinets are made of particleboard, that's correct. The sofa is covered with Alcantara, with a cotton throw.
The kitchen cabinets are made of particleboard, that's correct. The sofa is covered with Alcantara, with a cotton throw.
Hello questioner.
As an attentive reader, you may have noticed that the topic of parquet adhesive is controversially discussed due to partly informed or uninformed opinions.
In fact, the issue of harmful emissions has been exaggerated so much so far (also for better marketing of products) that technical laypersons hardly have possibilities for comparison or objective evaluation.
The fact is, we would have to live every day under a glass dome, supplied with controlled, filtered air, if we wanted to exclude all harmful effects caused by airborne particles and aerosols. This is certainly unrealistic in practice—but also not necessary, since humans have a well-developed immune system and can protect themselves to some extent.
In light of the responses I have read, I also wonder: "What exactly are 'bio adhesives' supposed to be????"
Pure water does not bond anything, common sense tells us that clearly. And if we want to connect materials firmly, we need ingredients that achieve the peel and shear strengths required by standards.
For example, very few people know that formaldehyde is naturally produced by wood as a natural substance. This is also true for the wood used as solid parquet flooring, which provides a cozy atmosphere and acts as a "carrier of the natural." Adhesives (commonly called "glues") are also used in engineered parquet flooring to bond the top layer to the core and to secure the backing layer underneath.
This means, among other things, that terms like "natural" do not necessarily mean "healthy" or at least "not harmful to health."
What I want to express with this short note is made clear in a simple sentence:
"You should not make a mountain out of a molehill!"
We live in a world where absolutely all media (solids, liquids, and gases) have become carriers of pollutants—either man-made or due to natural phenomena. Here, common sense should tell us which risks are simply part of life and which are apparently dismissed due to lifestyle choices.
A matter of attitude, for sure! Life itself already carries enough risks, but ending it prematurely for safety reasons is certainly no solution (just joking!).
Best regards, KlaRa
As an attentive reader, you may have noticed that the topic of parquet adhesive is controversially discussed due to partly informed or uninformed opinions.
In fact, the issue of harmful emissions has been exaggerated so much so far (also for better marketing of products) that technical laypersons hardly have possibilities for comparison or objective evaluation.
The fact is, we would have to live every day under a glass dome, supplied with controlled, filtered air, if we wanted to exclude all harmful effects caused by airborne particles and aerosols. This is certainly unrealistic in practice—but also not necessary, since humans have a well-developed immune system and can protect themselves to some extent.
In light of the responses I have read, I also wonder: "What exactly are 'bio adhesives' supposed to be????"
Pure water does not bond anything, common sense tells us that clearly. And if we want to connect materials firmly, we need ingredients that achieve the peel and shear strengths required by standards.
For example, very few people know that formaldehyde is naturally produced by wood as a natural substance. This is also true for the wood used as solid parquet flooring, which provides a cozy atmosphere and acts as a "carrier of the natural." Adhesives (commonly called "glues") are also used in engineered parquet flooring to bond the top layer to the core and to secure the backing layer underneath.
This means, among other things, that terms like "natural" do not necessarily mean "healthy" or at least "not harmful to health."
What I want to express with this short note is made clear in a simple sentence:
"You should not make a mountain out of a molehill!"
We live in a world where absolutely all media (solids, liquids, and gases) have become carriers of pollutants—either man-made or due to natural phenomena. Here, common sense should tell us which risks are simply part of life and which are apparently dismissed due to lifestyle choices.
A matter of attitude, for sure! Life itself already carries enough risks, but ending it prematurely for safety reasons is certainly no solution (just joking!).
Best regards, KlaRa
Thank you all for your feedback. I can understand every single point of view; in the end, everyone has to decide for themselves what they "believe." There simply isn’t 100% certain knowledge on this topic yet.
A brief note on tile adhesive: once tiles are installed, they stay in the same place for many years. The adhesive doesn’t need to move. Solid wood plank floors, on the other hand, will expand and contract over the next 50 years. The adhesive has to accommodate these movements—reliably. With plasticizers. Which may (I don’t know if they actually do) be harmful to the environment.
But regardless, I didn’t intend to focus on the health aspect. It was my mistake to bring it up at all. If you want to see a heated debate, just ask in a car forum about which motor oil is best. It’s worse than a religious war. Everyone is convinced theirs is the "right" oil. What really interests me here is whether anyone has had good or bad experiences with underfloor heating and fasteners.
Thanks again for your contributions. The topic of “Is adhesive dangerous or not” would be better discussed in its own separate thread.
Have a nice Sunday
Gausek
A brief note on tile adhesive: once tiles are installed, they stay in the same place for many years. The adhesive doesn’t need to move. Solid wood plank floors, on the other hand, will expand and contract over the next 50 years. The adhesive has to accommodate these movements—reliably. With plasticizers. Which may (I don’t know if they actually do) be harmful to the environment.
But regardless, I didn’t intend to focus on the health aspect. It was my mistake to bring it up at all. If you want to see a heated debate, just ask in a car forum about which motor oil is best. It’s worse than a religious war. Everyone is convinced theirs is the "right" oil. What really interests me here is whether anyone has had good or bad experiences with underfloor heating and fasteners.
Thanks again for your contributions. The topic of “Is adhesive dangerous or not” would be better discussed in its own separate thread.
Have a nice Sunday
Gausek
M
M@ssiv08154 Sep 2019 14:07I hope I may join the discussion, as I’m planning something similar:
I would like to install 20mm (¾ inch) solid oak floorboards. Mainly for the indoor climate, and also simply because I like the look.
The problem is:
1) Everything is tiled,
and
2) There is electric underfloor heating underneath.
Is there a way to do this properly? Honestly, I’m not too concerned about heat loss. The underfloor heating can be controlled separately in each room, so I’m considering just turning it off partially where the wood floor will be—since wood floors are naturally warm underfoot.
I would prefer not to glue the flooring down but rather install it as a floating floor. I was hoping to lay a cork layer over the tiles as impact sound insulation and then install the floorboards floating on top of that... would that work? The total area is about 72m² (775 sq ft), spread over three living rooms and a hallway.
I would like to install 20mm (¾ inch) solid oak floorboards. Mainly for the indoor climate, and also simply because I like the look.
The problem is:
1) Everything is tiled,
and
2) There is electric underfloor heating underneath.
Is there a way to do this properly? Honestly, I’m not too concerned about heat loss. The underfloor heating can be controlled separately in each room, so I’m considering just turning it off partially where the wood floor will be—since wood floors are naturally warm underfoot.
I would prefer not to glue the flooring down but rather install it as a floating floor. I was hoping to lay a cork layer over the tiles as impact sound insulation and then install the floorboards floating on top of that... would that work? The total area is about 72m² (775 sq ft), spread over three living rooms and a hallway.
@ M@ssiv0815 :
Basically, no parquet manufacturer approves the installation of parquet flooring over an electric underfloor heating system. However, due to the described construction (cork layer and floating installation of engineered parquet), the thermal resistance will likely be so high that very little to no heat will reach the surface of the parquet boards.
The reason behind this statement is the rapid heating of electric heating systems and the potentially increased risk of (under-drying) damage.
As a precaution, I would still recommend turning off the heating circuits if that is (according to your words) possible. The question regarding the available height for the new overall construction is deliberately not addressed here.
Regards, KlaRa
Basically, no parquet manufacturer approves the installation of parquet flooring over an electric underfloor heating system. However, due to the described construction (cork layer and floating installation of engineered parquet), the thermal resistance will likely be so high that very little to no heat will reach the surface of the parquet boards.
The reason behind this statement is the rapid heating of electric heating systems and the potentially increased risk of (under-drying) damage.
As a precaution, I would still recommend turning off the heating circuits if that is (according to your words) possible. The question regarding the available height for the new overall construction is deliberately not addressed here.
Regards, KlaRa
Hello,
I wrote the following in another forum regarding the same question from the original poster:
Last winter, I installed a 20 mm (¾ inch) thick solid plank floor (oak) with clips throughout our upper floor, except for the bathroom. It’s a continuous connection spanning two rooms and the hallway, approximately 40 m2 (430 ft2). The expansion gap around the edges is 18 mm (0.7 inches). We do not have underfloor heating. So far, we’re very satisfied; the feel underfoot is comfortable—slightly softer than glued flooring but not as springy as laminate. The substrate consists of PE film (since this is a new build) plus corrugated cardboard (for leveling) beneath the planks, then screed and polystyrene insulation on the structural ceiling.
The clips connect the long sides, and I bonded the short ends with a few drops of glue (which could be undone and the floor reinstalled if needed). Installation was not much more difficult than click laminate. Only one row of planks along the staircase side of the hallway was glued.
By the way, the planks came from a company in Wuppertal—easy to find online when searching for solid wood planks installed with clips. I can only recommend their system; the wood itself is stunning (“wild oak,” brushed and oiled), very knotty.
and
I can’t offer three years of experience yet, but at least three seasons. Planks can move more than engineered hardwood, so sufficient expansion gaps along the walls are extremely important—you should leave larger gaps than with floating engineered flooring. For example, 18 to 20 mm (0.7 to 0.8 inches) on each side for a room width of 4.9 m (16 ft) was enough for us. You’ll need wider baseboards to cover the gaps than usual, which is the trade-off with this installation method. We chose to install baseboards in white, matching the walls, so the gaps aren’t very noticeable.
Also, you should lay the planks along the longer dimension of the room, while the short side (where more movement is expected) follows the shorter dimension. A continuous connection over multiple rooms is not strictly necessary and actually makes installation more complicated.
We were also bothered by adhesive emissions. For around 40 m2 (430 ft2), you use roughly 100 kg (220 lbs) of glue…
P.S.: For a tiled substrate, I would recommend cork underlayment instead of corrugated cardboard. We have baseboard heating, not underfloor heating.
I wrote the following in another forum regarding the same question from the original poster:
Last winter, I installed a 20 mm (¾ inch) thick solid plank floor (oak) with clips throughout our upper floor, except for the bathroom. It’s a continuous connection spanning two rooms and the hallway, approximately 40 m2 (430 ft2). The expansion gap around the edges is 18 mm (0.7 inches). We do not have underfloor heating. So far, we’re very satisfied; the feel underfoot is comfortable—slightly softer than glued flooring but not as springy as laminate. The substrate consists of PE film (since this is a new build) plus corrugated cardboard (for leveling) beneath the planks, then screed and polystyrene insulation on the structural ceiling.
The clips connect the long sides, and I bonded the short ends with a few drops of glue (which could be undone and the floor reinstalled if needed). Installation was not much more difficult than click laminate. Only one row of planks along the staircase side of the hallway was glued.
By the way, the planks came from a company in Wuppertal—easy to find online when searching for solid wood planks installed with clips. I can only recommend their system; the wood itself is stunning (“wild oak,” brushed and oiled), very knotty.
and
I can’t offer three years of experience yet, but at least three seasons. Planks can move more than engineered hardwood, so sufficient expansion gaps along the walls are extremely important—you should leave larger gaps than with floating engineered flooring. For example, 18 to 20 mm (0.7 to 0.8 inches) on each side for a room width of 4.9 m (16 ft) was enough for us. You’ll need wider baseboards to cover the gaps than usual, which is the trade-off with this installation method. We chose to install baseboards in white, matching the walls, so the gaps aren’t very noticeable.
Also, you should lay the planks along the longer dimension of the room, while the short side (where more movement is expected) follows the shorter dimension. A continuous connection over multiple rooms is not strictly necessary and actually makes installation more complicated.
We were also bothered by adhesive emissions. For around 40 m2 (430 ft2), you use roughly 100 kg (220 lbs) of glue…
P.S.: For a tiled substrate, I would recommend cork underlayment instead of corrugated cardboard. We have baseboard heating, not underfloor heating.
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