ᐅ Architect’s Fee and Additional Costs

Hello,

I am looking for information regarding the breakdown of the architect’s fee we need to pay.

We are paying our architect according to the valid HOAI 2009 and reviewed the eligible costs with him over the weekend. During this, some points came up that we were not aware of before or would like to research further.

- Our architect told us that any work we do ourselves, such as drywall installation, is fully credited towards the eligible costs of his fee. The labor hours would be valued at the same hourly wage as if a company had done the work. Is this correct?

- A reviewing structural engineer (building inspector) would cost about €5,000 for an average single-family home in Hesse. However, since our architect has acquired the necessary qualifications to perform these tasks himself, he only bills us €1,700 (net) for this service. The cost is said to cover his expenses for renewals of the necessary qualifications and his effort. The cost of a structural engineer seems quite high to us, so we are unsure if the amount charged by the architect, since he did the work himself, might be too high.

- The eligible costs for his fee calculation are based on the originally offered net prices of the contractors for all trades. Any possible discounts on invoices (cash discounts, negotiations, etc.) would not affect the eligible costs.

- The net costs of each trade are included in the eligible costs at 100%. I had heard that there are (probably technical) trades where this is not allowed at 100%. Does this mean that different trades are calculated differently in the fee statement?

- The thermal insulation assessment for our house was prepared without prior discussion by his structural engineer. This engineer charges €2,000 for the service. Friends of ours paid only between €400 and €600 for the same service. Inquiries with other companies also resulted in amounts around €500 to €600. What amount should we realistically pay?

It would be great if I could get some comments on my questions. Unfortunately, my further online research has not been conclusive.

Thank you!!

Orschel schrieb:
...
- The thermal insulation certificate for our house was prepared without consultation by his structural engineer. He charges €2,000 for this service.

That is quite high. However, it is difficult to judge this remotely. It’s possible that the building is geometrically so complex that such fees are justified.
The MEP planning for the most essential and critical points usually does not cost that much for a “normal” building.
Who was responsible for this in the present case?

Best regards

Hello,

Orschel schrieb:

- Our architect told us that any self-performed work in drywall construction would be fully credited towards the billable costs of his fee. The labor hours would be valued (wage per hour) as if a company had carried out the work. Is this correct?

Yes.

Orschel schrieb:
- A review structural engineer would cost about €5,000 for an average single-family house in Hesse.

Average meaning: 130 sqm (1400 sq ft) of living space? If so, I consider that statement to be nothing more than a rumor.

Orschel schrieb:
However, since our architect has obtained the necessary certifications to take over the tasks of the review structural engineer himself, he would only charge us €1,700 (net) for this service...

I pay €2,300 (net) for structural engineering for a 130 sqm (1400 sq ft) house and €1,800 (net) for the thermal insulation certificate—both from a "real" structural engineer.

Orschel schrieb:
- The billable costs for his fee calculation are based on the originally offered net prices of the contractors for all trades. Any discounts on the invoices (cash discount, negotiations...) would not affect the billable costs.

Correct.

Orschel schrieb:
- The net costs for each trade are taken into account at 100% in the billable costs. I heard that there might be (technical?) trades where these cannot be accounted for at 100%. Does this mean that different trades are calculated differently in the fee statement?

No.

Orschel schrieb:
- The thermal insulation certificate for our house was created by his structural engineer without prior discussion. He charges €2,000 for this service. Friends of ours paid between €400-600 for the same. Inquiries with other companies also resulted in approximately €500-600... What amount should we actually pay?

As I wrote above, the thermal insulation certificate costs me €1,800 (net).

Kind regards

Hello €uro,

€uro schrieb:
That's intense

No, just slightly overpriced. A "one-man operation" can probably do it a bit cheaper; when there are several "mouths to feed," the calculation doesn’t add up.

Best regards

Regarding thermal insulation again, I think I have now identified where the major cost differences come from. Could it be that my acquaintances who are building houses only had the thermal insulation verification, that is, the energy certificate prepared, which is sufficient for the building permit / planning permission, while our architect is charging us for the entire thermal insulation service? According to HOAI, this consists of

1. Developing the planning concept for thermal insulation (20%)
2. Creating the design including the preliminary calculation for thermal insulation and working through structural details of the insulation measures (40%)
3. Verification of thermal insulation (25%)
4. Coordinating the planned thermal insulation with the execution planning and contracting (15%).

If the full thermal insulation process is not required in this form and one only calculates the thermal insulation and issues the energy certificate, the costs would make sense. 25% of the estimated €2,000 would amount to approximately €600 gross...

Hello,

Orschel schrieb:
.... As far as I know, the costs for the structural engineer are set by the state.

The fees for structural engineers are regulated by the HOAI.

Kind regards