ᐅ Single-family house in Bauhaus style with 180 m² living area and double garage
Created on: 2 Aug 2019 20:39
N
Notstrom
Hello everyone,
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
- Shell construction: 170,000
- Carpentry, roof construction: 65,000
- Scaffolding: 5,000
- Interior & exterior plaster: 30,000
- Tiling work: 13,000
- Screed: 8,500
- Interior doors: 5,000
- Metalwork: 7,000
- Window installation: 40,000
- Painting: 8,000
- Flooring work: 5,000
- Drywall construction: 15,000
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
DASI90 schrieb:
I’m thinking more towards Freiburg when it comes to Southern Baden, right? Finding a general contractor (GC) from the local area seems to be the real challenge. There’s a GC in the Palatinate region we’ve heard good things about. But they were unwilling to drive "just" 25 km (15 miles) across the Rhine.
What kind of heat pump system are you planning? Hi
Yes, correct, all GCs between Karlsruhe and Freiburg seem possible from my point of view. The next larger town is about 10 km (6 miles) around Offenburg (postal code 77652).
Regarding the heat pump, we haven’t looked into it in detail yet. We only found the combination of photovoltaic with a heat pump "attractive"..
Bookstar schrieb:
For 1,000 hours he would take a gross €60 per hour, but something is definitely off there. He wouldn’t even get out of bed for that hourly wage. Besides, you certainly don’t need 1,000 hours.. Attached is part of the email exchange with the architect:
Please find attached the minutes of our initial meeting. I hope I have correctly captured all the important points. I wanted to verify the construction costs a bit and have prepared an estimate. This ends at €655,000 gross (see attachment). You can see what is included (also in cost group 700, incidental costs, fees, and charges). Due to the current market situation in the construction sector, cost increases are unpredictable. The accuracy is around +/-15%. As mentioned, you significantly influence these construction costs through the size and dimensions of the building as well as the choice of materials. I have included a ventilation system combined with an air-to-water heat pump in the calculation.
Based on this, I have prepared a fee calculation according to HOAI, which totals €62,500 net. As already mentioned, I assume an average of 1,000 working hours at €55 per hour and can therefore offer a flat fee of €55,000 net (including drainage planning and drainage application). Please find our fee proposal attached.
We will prepare the schematic design and planning for the building permit (also called planning permission), as well as the detailed construction planning. On that basis, we will handle the tendering of individual trades and the awarding of contracts. Construction management will be provided from the start of construction until acceptance of the trades and handover to you for moving in. I can assure you that we always keep an eye on construction costs, quality of workmanship, and schedules. Construction management takes place weekly on site. We will assign an experienced construction manager for this.
Regarding the timeline: if you decide to award the contract to us before the beginning of July, we could start immediately and also submit the building permit application significantly earlier than mentioned in the minutes.
Lanini schrieb:
and no precisely detailed execution drawings at 1:50 scale That makes a good result even more remarkable (and probably only achievable with well-coordinated tradespeople), since even at 1:50 scale, true details require further "enlargements".
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
Then a good result is all the more remarkable (and probably only possible with skilled craftsmen), even in M1:50 true details require further “enlargements.” Yes, that may be true. Overall, we were really lucky, especially considering how many issues other homeowners seem to have (not with our architect).
With us, a lot was discussed directly on site. Things like drainage were, of course, planned in advance, but for example, the entire electrical system was discussed on site with the electrician during the rough-in phase, and every outlet location was marked on the unfinished walls. I should mention that all our building services—electrical, plumbing, heating, and ventilation—were handled by a single company. This eliminated the need for coordination between different contractors since everything related to building services came “from one source,” which I see as a big advantage. This company also produced many of their own internal plans; in a way, the building services contractor created part of the “execution plans” themselves rather than relying solely on the architect. Otherwise, as I said, nearly everything was decided on site. The architect held initial meetings with each contractor at the building site and discussed how things should be done—usually alone, sometimes with us present. And that really worked. Apart from very minor details, nothing went wrong. Everything turned out exactly as we wanted.
What I don’t understand is: How can prefab house suppliers who build with solid construction offer a house with 180m² (1,938 sq ft) for around 350,000 EUR, and why do I get the “OK” for 600,000–650,000 EUR in this thread?
Regarding the status: Tomorrow morning we have an appointment with Architect 1 (fixed price 60,000 EUR), then at the bank, and possibly also with Architect 2 (fixed price 55,000 EUR).
I’ll keep you updated.
Regards,
Notstrom
Regarding the status: Tomorrow morning we have an appointment with Architect 1 (fixed price 60,000 EUR), then at the bank, and possibly also with Architect 2 (fixed price 55,000 EUR).
I’ll keep you updated.
Regards,
Notstrom
Notstrom schrieb:
What I don’t understand is: How can “prefabricated house providers” who build with solid construction offer a house with 180m² (1,940 sq ft) for about 350,000 EUR, and why do I see an “OK” for 600,000–650,000 EUR in this thread? On one hand, you only received confirmation here that the amount is realistic and hasn’t been underestimated.
On the other hand: in your case, the double garage and all additional costs are included, which is not the case for the general contractor house. Also, the quality looks different at this price level for a general contractor house.
Notstrom schrieb:
What I don’t understand is: How can “prefabricated house providers” who build with solid construction offer a house of 180 m² (1,937 sq ft) for around 350,000 EUR, while here in this thread I get an “OK” for 600,000–650,000 EUR?
Status update: Tomorrow morning we have an appointment with Architect 1 (flat fee 60,000 EUR), then with the bank, and possibly with Architect 2 (flat fee 55,000 EUR).
I’ll keep you updated.
Regards,
NotstromBecause a house consists of more than just a wall with a window and white paint on both sides. The finishing and fittings make the difference.
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