ᐅ Single-family house in Bauhaus style with 180 m² living area and double garage
Created on: 2 Aug 2019 20:39
N
Notstrom
Hello everyone,
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
- Shell construction: 170,000
- Carpentry, roof construction: 65,000
- Scaffolding: 5,000
- Interior & exterior plaster: 30,000
- Tiling work: 13,000
- Screed: 8,500
- Interior doors: 5,000
- Metalwork: 7,000
- Window installation: 40,000
- Painting: 8,000
- Flooring work: 5,000
- Drywall construction: 15,000
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
DASI90 schrieb:
So, our fees are similar. Of course, that’s a significant amount, but when I consider that my architect manages a project for around 2 years and would only charge 20% of what the original poster mentioned, I find it hard to believe that they truly dedicate themselves to it. If I had to oversee a project for 2 years and were offered €10,000–20,000 (€11,000–22,000 approx.), I would also politely decline.Well, in our area you won’t find an architect charging according to HOAI (official fee scale). Architects here usually charge around €12,000 to €15,000 (€13,000–16,500 approx.), and as I said, building with an architect is the standard approach here. Almost nobody builds with a general contractor because it tends to be more expensive.Our construction is finished. We’ve been living in the house for 1.5 years. Everything went smoothly without any problems, defects, or need for coordination on our part. Our architect, in our opinion, took very good care of everything; he managed all the tendering, compared quotes, awarded contracts, coordinated the trades on site, and checked the completed work and invoices. Sure, it probably wasn’t as “thorough” as it would have been with a fee of €60,000 (€66,000 approx.). For example, during the design phase we didn’t get a fancy 3D model (I painstakingly created that myself in Sweet Home) or highly detailed construction drawings at a 1:50 scale, and our architect doesn’t run a stylish office with many employees (he’s a solo practitioner working from his own small home office). But our architect visited the construction site at least 2-3 times a week, checked progress, and independently coordinated the contractors without us having to lift a finger. Yes, he did all that for the above-mentioned fee. The process was pretty “informal” and relaxed, less bureaucratic and less formal than is probably usual, which of course saved him time. But around here, that’s normal. We live in a rural area. Everybody somehow knows everybody within a few steps. Word-of-mouth is everything, and agreements are often handshake deals. Our architect has managed 5 building sites on our small street with about 20 plots so far—that’s quite a lot in my opinion. Of course, not all at the same time, as he declines projects if he can’t guarantee good support. He takes on a maximum of 3-4 single-family home projects simultaneously. He lives his job with passion. That’s clear. He doesn’t need to make a fortune. His support included about 4 months of design planning including the building permit (planning permission/building permit) application, followed by roughly 8-9 months of site supervision, so about 1 year in total. He wasn’t involved in landscaping because we did that ourselves entirely, but he’s still available to answer questions. We were completely satisfied with his work; he fully met our expectations. What he did was absolutely sufficient for us, though I admit that the service from a HOAI-certified architect might have been even better. But for us, this was just right. He relieved us of a lot of work, and that was our goal—no more, no less. I would never have wanted to pay €60,000 (€66,000 approx.) for an architect; then I’d rather coordinate the trades myself. But different people have different expectations, and if the total house cost approaches €800,000 (€880,000 approx.), then a €60,000 (€66,000 approx.) architect fee is more feasible than for us, where our project including land, all additional costs, and landscaping didn’t exceed €350,000 (€385,000 approx.).
But I want to emphasize again: this is rural Rhineland-Palatinate (RLP). Things work differently here than elsewhere. This starts with architect fees and house prices and goes all the way to the fact that we had almost no written contracts with the contractors or the architect. And still, everything ran smoothly.
I fully understand that this wouldn’t work in other parts of Germany—and probably most clients don’t want it like this anyway. I know that HOAI-based fees are normal elsewhere, and the idea that someone would do similar work for 20% of that causes disbelief. But here, this is how it works. This is normal here. As I said, our building is completed, and I can confirm that our architect did take good care of us.
DASI90 schrieb:
Are the property costs included in your total house construction costs of €655,000, or does that figure only cover the building costs? Those are purely the building costs. The land costs are an additional €150,000 (about $160,000) on top.
Bookstar schrieb:
With separate contracts, we had around 4,000 hours of architect fees. But we experienced a lot of stress and some minor defects. I think next time I would rather pay the 60 grand if I know the architect is good.
Time and peace of mind are priceless! Unfortunately, I just don’t have the time..
DASI90 schrieb:
How many hours does an architect typically work if I hire them for all service phases? Our architect estimated 1,000 hours.
_______
Quick question: I’m having trouble finding a general contractor here.
So far, I only find large companies with mixed quality reviews.
Does anyone know a reliable general contractor from southern Baden (Freiburg / Offenburg / Karlsruhe area) that they can confidently recommend?
Notstrom schrieb:
These are the pure construction costs. The land will add another 150,000 EUR on top.
Unfortunately, I just don’t have the time.
Our architect has estimated 1,000 hours.
_______
Quick question: I’m having trouble finding a general contractor (GC) here.
So far, I only find large companies with no real positive feedback on quality.
Does anyone know a good GC in southern Baden (around Freiburg / Offenburg / Karlsruhe) who they can confidently recommend? For southern Baden, I’d lean more towards Freiburg, right? It’s probably quite challenging to find a GC from the immediate area. In the Palatinate region, we’ve heard good things about one GC, but they already hesitated to drive “just” 25 km (15 miles) across the Rhine.
What kind of heat pump system are you planning to install?
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