ᐅ Single-family house in Bauhaus style with 180 m² living area and double garage
Created on: 2 Aug 2019 20:39
N
Notstrom
Hello everyone,
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
after reading quietly for a long time, here comes my first post – I really need your opinions and advice now. Warning: This will be quite comprehensive, the number of questions just doesn’t get any smaller.
We (my wife, our child, and potentially another child in the future) are going to buy a plot of land from a municipality in southern Baden (notary appointment on 14.08.).
The plot is 530m² (5705 sq ft) and is quite "free" in terms of building regulations, meaning roof shapes and such are very open.
So, here is our idea:
- We want a single-family house (Bauhaus style) with a living area of 180m² (don’t ask why 180m² (1938 sq ft); it was just a number that has become more and more fixed…) no luxury fixtures, smart home only at a basic level if at all, a tiled stove, two children’s rooms, possibly a ventilation system, heat pump… How much living space do we actually need? Our research hasn’t made this clear to us…
- We also want a basement primarily for storage and house technology – later expansion for a hobby room/office is possible but not planned initially.
- A double garage (or alternatively a single garage and a carport) will round off the “hard facts.”
- Energy efficiency: Good question – we would like to do “something,” but that something would be closer to KfW 55 standard rather than KfW 40 plus.
- Budget: We had always aimed around the magic number of half a million euros, but reality caught up with us. So, we adjusted our budget as follows:
- The plot costs 150,000 EUR, the architects’ current estimates (+/- 15% deviation, but they assured us this is a conservative estimate and likely the upper limit) range between 550,000 EUR and 650,000 EUR (excluding own work but including all additional services).
Therefore, our maximum budget for the entire project is set at 800,000 EUR, including the plot, the house with all additional services, and about 50,000 EUR for kitchen and so forth.
- We plan own work only for the “usual” things like flooring, possibly painting, and the garden.
- Through my father’s network, we know some craftsmen he has worked with in his former business (self-employed in landscaping), so, for example, we get the excavation for the foundation at a lower cost.
- We had contact for a long time with a large, well-known prefab house builder – timber-based – but after seeing the price, we decided against it (note: we once lived in a timber-frame apartment building, which was a nightmare, so we were somewhat prejudiced regarding timber construction).
- So far, we have been in contact with four architects. One was removed due to price (about 20% more expensive than the other two), and another did not convince us, so we are left with two. (After reducing our shortlist to two, a third architect was recommended, who we met for coffee, but he was disorganized, his office was a mess, so we didn’t pursue that further.)
- With the two remaining architects, we agreed to get back to them at the beginning of next week with our decision.
- Meanwhile, the Association of Private Homeowners informed us in their welcome email that cost estimates in the model with architect and individual trades may be exceeded by 30 to 40%.
- We are a bit confused now because we respect the price framework, and the potential 15% deviation on 600,000 - 650,000 EUR (i.e., between 90,000 EUR - 100,000 EUR, which is no small amount) worries us.
What do you think about all this? Is the cost estimate (details below) realistic? Realistically on the high side? Should we perhaps go for a general contractor after all? Do you know any? (Is it even allowed to speak about names here?)
As mentioned above, here is the rough cost estimate we received from our architect number 1:
*: All prices excluding tax
a) Building – Construction: 371,500
- Shell construction: 170,000
- Carpentry, roof construction: 65,000
- Scaffolding: 5,000
- Interior & exterior plaster: 30,000
- Tiling work: 13,000
- Screed: 8,500
- Interior doors: 5,000
- Metalwork: 7,000
- Window installation: 40,000
- Painting: 8,000
- Flooring work: 5,000
- Drywall construction: 15,000
b) Building – Technical systems: 100,000
- Heating: 26,000
- Sanitary installations: 25,000
- Ventilation system: 14,000
- Electrical: 30,000
- Wastewater lift pump: 5,000
c) Additional building costs: 79,000
- Architect including drainage planning: 55,000 (we preliminarily agreed on 60,000 gross, including tax)
- Structural engineer: 7,500
- Energy consultant: 1,200
- Surveyor: 1,500
- Soil investigation report: 1,000
- Permit fees: 3,800
- Sewage connection development: 200
- Electrical connection, telecom connection, cable connection, water connection: 4,500
- Construction power supply: 1,300
- Other auxiliary costs/fees: 2,000
This brings us to about 550,000 net plus 19% VAT = 655,000 EUR.
What do you think? Is this justified? Overplanned? Conservative? Too expensive?
Should we opt for a general contractor to gain “planning security”?
Thanks a lot in advance for reading and for your advice.
Hello everyone,
First of all, thank you very much for the numerous replies – they really help and lighten the load.
The shell includes everything, including garage, basement, and earthworks. However, the earthworks will be done by an acquaintance. He won’t do it for free, but certainly cheaper than going through the “normal route.”
To what extent does the Bauhaus style define that this is not a “small size” or the construction budget? I will definitely install basic smart home features. I work at the Swabian automotive supplier with the big B, and as employees, we get discounts on their smart home products. I think I can expect around 10,000€ for a basic setup, right? I believe the architect considered this in the cost estimate, as we did mention it.
I would assume so. An architect once quoted us 20,000€ for the structural engineer, which shocked us. The plot and new development area are completely flat. Groundwater is at about 8 meters (26 feet). Therefore, I don’t expect the structural engineer to be that expensive.
See above. Additional info: Our acquaintance will take care of all the excavation work and removal of excavated soil, so the costs won’t be too high. According to the architect, these costs are included under the shell construction item.
For plumbing and electrical work, we have planned around 55,000€ net. It should fit with our ideas (bathroom with bathtub, shower, and toilet upstairs, guest WC with shower on the ground floor).
We have called a few general contractors, but most turned us down, saying they currently only want to build multi-family and commercial projects. Driving around is a bit difficult since we currently live about 180 km (112 miles) from the plot… but I have browsed some homebuilders online. We will try calling them on Monday to see who might be interested in this type of project.
Experts for floor plans? Bring them on! I need to dig through the subforums.
Absolutely – but through his network, we will get some things cheaper. Especially the paving stones and related work will be done very inexpensively.
50% part-time? No way! Absolutely not an option. But interface stress? Coordination effort? I don’t have to worry about that, right? According to the architect, he handles the site management for the entire project. I don’t have to take care of anything. He issues the tenders; if we have contacts, we can name companies. He issues the tenders, we decide, and he follows up. The only thing running through me directly is payment of the trades – everything else is on him.
Isn’t that the architect’s task? Or did I just underestimate this with my assumptions? Or should I have only mentioned that the architect manages the whole process? At least, that’s how he sold me the 60,000€ figure.
First of all, thank you very much for the numerous replies – they really help and lighten the load.
guckuck2 schrieb:
In my opinion, the shell is quite expensive. What is included? Monolithic construction, basement, garage, including earthworks?
30,000€ for conventional electrical work also seems quite a lot. 40,000€ for windows is not little either; I assume this includes the front door and some additional glazing with external blinds?
Additional costs look good, but I find the utility connections too optimistic. I would rather estimate 10,000-12,000€ including wastewater (the 200€ seems like a joke?! The transfer shafts alone cost 2,000€ or more).
The shell includes everything, including garage, basement, and earthworks. However, the earthworks will be done by an acquaintance. He won’t do it for free, but certainly cheaper than going through the “normal route.”
11ant schrieb:
180 m² (1,938 sq ft) is definitely not a small size, and especially in the “Bauhaus style,” some modernity is expected. So in terms of re-sale value, I would not undersell the level of smart home features.
To what extent does the Bauhaus style define that this is not a “small size” or the construction budget? I will definitely install basic smart home features. I work at the Swabian automotive supplier with the big B, and as employees, we get discounts on their smart home products. I think I can expect around 10,000€ for a basic setup, right? I believe the architect considered this in the cost estimate, as we did mention it.
Matthias 40 schrieb:
Is the double garage including roof already part of the shell build as well as the basement? Don’t forget stairs and joinery. Also consider shading, paving, furniture, interior window sills. 7,500€ for the structural engineer seems very high; the construction must be quite complex.
I would assume so. An architect once quoted us 20,000€ for the structural engineer, which shocked us. The plot and new development area are completely flat. Groundwater is at about 8 meters (26 feet). Therefore, I don’t expect the structural engineer to be that expensive.
MadameP schrieb:
What is completely missing: removal of excavated soil, possible extra costs for foundation works, etc. Or is all of that included in the shell build? Is the plot completely flat? Is there a soil survey? Might the site need grading or reinforcement?
See above. Additional info: Our acquaintance will take care of all the excavation work and removal of excavated soil, so the costs won’t be too high. According to the architect, these costs are included under the shell construction item.
MadameP schrieb:
I would also include a good buffer for plumbing and electrical work. Your outdoor landscaping costs are completely missing. You can spend a lot of money very quickly there. You surely don’t want to be walking through pallets into the house for years...
For plumbing and electrical work, we have planned around 55,000€ net. It should fit with our ideas (bathroom with bathtub, shower, and toilet upstairs, guest WC with shower on the ground floor).
MadameP schrieb:
I agree with @ypg, if you plan with a basement, the house could be somewhat smaller with a good floor plan. There are real experts here. For comparison, have a general contractor / main contractor quote the house for you. We build with a main contractor (architect = builder), and I find the fixed price very convenient. Of course, additional costs can arise, but only if you order something special. (At least that’s how it works here. But it might vary. It depends on how good the GC/main contractor is.) If you already have the plot, you are not under pressure to rush into a contract. Drive around local development areas and ask around. Who built what, and how satisfied are they? That’s how we did it and had great success.
We have called a few general contractors, but most turned us down, saying they currently only want to build multi-family and commercial projects. Driving around is a bit difficult since we currently live about 180 km (112 miles) from the plot… but I have browsed some homebuilders online. We will try calling them on Monday to see who might be interested in this type of project.
Experts for floor plans? Bring them on! I need to dig through the subforums.
MadameP schrieb:
I missed that your father is a landscape gardener. Material still costs though…
Absolutely – but through his network, we will get some things cheaper. Especially the paving stones and related work will be done very inexpensively.
MadameP schrieb:
One more thing. Personally, I think managing contracts separately is suicidal in the current situation. Unless you can reduce your own work to 50% part-time for at least a year. All the coordination stress, interface headaches… Someone is always missing.
50% part-time? No way! Absolutely not an option. But interface stress? Coordination effort? I don’t have to worry about that, right? According to the architect, he handles the site management for the entire project. I don’t have to take care of anything. He issues the tenders; if we have contacts, we can name companies. He issues the tenders, we decide, and he follows up. The only thing running through me directly is payment of the trades – everything else is on him.
Isn’t that the architect’s task? Or did I just underestimate this with my assumptions? Or should I have only mentioned that the architect manages the whole process? At least, that’s how he sold me the 60,000€ figure.
One more question: The architect mentioned that KfW55 (for example) requires more floor space due to the insulation. Is there a rule of thumb for how much more this would cost compared to, for example, 36cm (14 inches) walls? I don’t think the insulation itself is significantly more expensive, right? Since we want to use a heat pump for heating and also plan to install a ventilation system, the only step from KfW55 to KfW40 plus would be adding photovoltaic panels on the roof, or am I misunderstanding something?
Notstrom schrieb:
To what extent does the Bauhaus style define sizes beyond the "low-budget level" or the total construction cost? It's not about the total cost, but rather the fittings. 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) is clearly above social housing standards, and the Bauhaus style creates the expectation among potential buyers that outdated 1970s electrical installations won’t be considered "standard." Personally, I thought a manual S-Class was really cool, but when reselling, that tends to be a disadvantage. As long as you don’t have combined life, accident, and divorce insurance, I would always factor in resale value.
Notstrom schrieb:
Experts on floor plans? Bring them on! I need to dig through the subforums. In the subforums, the experts tend to focus more on kitchen-specific topics; otherwise, you’ll find them here in the "Open Space" area. In particular, Kerstin (kbt09, best at planning) and Katja (kaho674, prefers sketching); I also focus on the floor plan but mostly contribute verbally since I’m not good at drawing. I prefer working on the strategic level.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Notstrom schrieb:
50% construction supervision? No way! Absolutely unthinkable, but: interface hassle? Coordination effort? I don’t have to worry about that, right? According to the architect, he takes full project management for the entire project. I don’t need to handle anything. He would put the work out to tender, we can suggest companies if we have contacts, he issues the tender, we decide, and he monitors everything. The only thing is that payments to the trades would be handled directly by me – everything else is on him.
Isn’t that actually the architect’s job? Am I being too inexperienced with this assumption, or should I have simply mentioned that the architect manages the entire process?! At least that’s how he “sold” me the 60,000 EUR.We built quite rurally in Rhineland-Palatinate in 2017, also with an architect and individual contracts. For us, it was just as you described. We decided together with the architect which companies would receive the tender invitations. We could suggest companies if we had any recommendations; otherwise, he proposed companies that he considered “good, affordable, and reliable” based on his experience. He then managed the tender process, went through the subsequent offers with us, awarded the contracts to the companies, coordinated the companies and the entire construction process, and supervised the work carried out. The invoices were sent directly to us from the companies; if we wanted, we could forward them to the architect for a quick “check,” and he would briefly verify them and give his “OK” before we paid.
Everything worked absolutely smoothly. There were no long idle periods on site. We didn’t have to worry about anything. The architect handled it all. We practically had no contact with the contractors, except when there was something to discuss in detail or to select finishes, but even then the architect was there to support us if we wanted. The whole build went absolutely without problems and (except for minor issues) without defects. And the architect’s original cost estimate was pretty accurate – okay, we were a bit over budget (around 10,000 EUR), but this was only because we upgraded some finishes later, so it was our conscious choice. Otherwise, everything fit because we had precise offers from the contractors early on, which they all actually stuck to.
However, as I said, this was 2017 in a rural area of Rhineland-Palatinate. Things often work a bit differently here. For example, almost everything is done without written contracts and only with a handshake. Yes, that can be risky. But for us, it worked smoothly. So, I don’t know if it would be the same for your build with your architect. But if that’s how he communicated it, I would definitely assume it is. I can definitely recommend construction by individual contract with an architect!
Here are our house building costs. As I said, we built rurally in Rhineland-Palatinate, so this is almost certainly not transferable to the OP, but maybe it’s still interesting for some.
Our total build cost including the plot (around 40,000 EUR), ancillary costs, a city villa with 160 sqm (1720 sq ft) plus a double garage 6 x 9 m (20 x 30 ft), solid 36.5 cm (14 inch) thick walls, controlled mechanical ventilation, air-to-water heat pump, RC2-class windows, partly external venetian blinds (otherwise roller shutters), conventional but well-equipped electrical installation (no smart home), no fireplace, as well as the essentials for outdoor areas (terrace, laying L-shaped retaining walls, lawn installation) was just under 350,000 EUR. Our own work included drywall (only ceiling on upper floor), door installation, flooring (vinyl, laminate), partial painting (paint fleece + painting) and outdoor work. This is absolutely unthinkable and not doable in many other parts of Germany, I know.
But just as an example. For us, it looked like this (all costs for house and garage combined, but we don’t have a basement); all approximate figures I still remember:
- Shell construction and earthworks: 80,000 EUR
- Carpentry work: 11,000 EUR
- Roofing: 21,000 EUR (including scaffolding)
- Interior & exterior plaster: 25,000 EUR
- Screed: 3,500 EUR
- Interior doors: 2,500 EUR
- Window installation: 22,000 EUR
- Ventilation system: 10,500 EUR
- Electrical work: 20,000 EUR
- Heating and plumbing: 47,000 EUR
- Wooden stair treads on concrete stairs: 4,000 EUR
- Structural engineering: 2,200 EUR
- Land surveying: 1,700 EUR
- House connections: 3,000 EUR
- No permit fees (OK, 100 EUR for the building application in exemption procedure)
- No energy consultant (building without KfW subsidy)
It should be possible with an architect who has been commissioned. Of course, they will expect to be paid for everything.
In our very rural area, two projects were or are being carried out with pure direct contracting (without an architect providing any services). Disaster.
They started at the beginning of 2017, even before the demolition excavator arrived here.
House 1 is aiming for Christmas 2019.
House 2 is aiming for the end of 2020.
Costs are getting out of control for both. Sometimes only one bid comes in out of ten requested, and that at defensive prices.
Make sure to clarify whether what you mentioned above is really included—I think so, but I assume it.
In our very rural area, two projects were or are being carried out with pure direct contracting (without an architect providing any services). Disaster.
They started at the beginning of 2017, even before the demolition excavator arrived here.
House 1 is aiming for Christmas 2019.
House 2 is aiming for the end of 2020.
Costs are getting out of control for both. Sometimes only one bid comes in out of ten requested, and that at defensive prices.
Make sure to clarify whether what you mentioned above is really included—I think so, but I assume it.
haydee schrieb:
Make sure to confirm whether what you mentioned above is actually included, I think, I assume soHi, yes, the architect’s fee calculation is composed as follows:
The offer also includes the following
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