ᐅ Planning a Single-Family Home on a Sloped Site – Making Optimal Use of the Land
Created on: 24 May 2019 22:20
F
Fuchsbauer
Hello dear forum,
we currently live in Vienna and have purchased a beautiful (and unfortunately very expensive) sloped plot west of Vienna. We already had an approved building permit plan (!) prepared by an architect, but in February we decided to stop the process. Through discussions with builders as well as other trades (window manufacturers, plumbers, electricians), we realized that this plan would exceed our initially agreed budget by approximately 30-40% in execution costs. Hence, we put on the brakes and started over: this time with an independent planner recommended to us by a builder who – in our opinion – is doing a good job and has developed the current plan together with us.
However, before we proceed towards the building permit plan, we would like to have your feedback to “challenge” the plan. As you can imagine, we have already invested a lot of time and nerves in this process with the architect, the restart, and back and forth, and if possible, we want to start building still in 2019… especially since one of the future residents of the two children’s bedrooms has already been born, and we want to move out of our small apartment as soon as possible.
Here is our questionnaire, which we hope gives you a good overview of our project:
Development plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 690 m² (19.5 m x 35.4 m) (7,432 sq ft (64 ft x 116 ft))
Slope: yes, approx. 5 m (16 ft) gradient over 35 m (115 ft) length
Site coverage ratio: not applicable in Austria, buildable area is 199 m² (2,141 sq ft)
Floor area ratio: not applicable in Austria
Building setback lines and boundaries: front and side setbacks each 3 m (10 ft) or half the eaves height of the adjacent house front, whichever is greater; rear setback 3 m (10 ft)
Edge construction: within the setback area up to a max height of 3 m (10 ft); higher height downhill allowed following terrain
Number of parking spaces: 1 unenclosed parking space required
Number of storeys: no restrictions in the development plan; currently 2 floors planned
Roof type: flat roof
Architectural style: Bauhaus
Orientation: southeast
Maximum heights / limits: 6.5 m (21 ft) on slope side / 8.5 m (28 ft) on valley side
Additional regulations:
Owners’ requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: Bauhaus, flat roof, single-family house
Basement, floors: 2 floors (for cost reasons), with the upper floor at street level and the ground floor partially built into the slope
Number of occupants, ages: 4, two adults (mid/late 30s) and two small children; medium-term expectation of adding an elderly person (grandmother)
Room requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Ground floor (essentially basement level): large living area with living room, dining area and spacious kitchen, guest WC with hand basin, hobby room and storage rooms as well as technical room
Upper floor (at street level): office/guest room, guest bathroom, wardrobe, large bathroom, walk-in closet (spatially separated from master bedroom), utility room plus 3 bedrooms (master bedroom, 2 children's rooms)
Office: family use or home office? Both
Number of guest stays per year: currently about 6 weekends per year, but potential for permanent guest room use
Open or closed architecture: open but focused on reducing noise transfer from the living area to the bedrooms
Conservative or modern construction: modern but timeless
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with large kitchen island (peninsula) and direct view contact to dining table
Number of dining seats: regularly 6 with possibility to expand to 10 for occasions
Fireplace: yes, on the ground floor in the living area – also to serve as room divider
Music / stereo wall: wall for large TV and floor-standing speakers
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: garage
Utility garden, greenhouse: raised beds for vegetables, preferably flat area for children’s play area (sandbox, swing, …), shrubs such as elderberry bush and butterfly bush along the property boundary
It is planned to raise the original ground level by up to 1.5 m (5 ft) to create a level area, which means a retaining wall will be necessary in the lower garden area.
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some things should or should not be included:
Controlled ventilation system, thermal building activation for cooling, heating via geothermal energy (horizontal trench collector)
The walk-in closet should be spatially separated (at least by a door) from the master bedroom (since one of us gets up earlier than the other and the second person should not be disturbed).
The bedroom windows are oriented directly to the garden to prevent views from neighbors.
Guest room / office and guest bathroom should be on the same level so guests can easily find their way at night.
Large, open space combining living room, dining room, and kitchen, with the area around the sofa and TV somewhat separated (niche).
House design
Origin of the planning:
We initially worked with an architect and already had an approved building permit plan. Unfortunately, based on quotes from builders, it became clear that the architect’s cost estimates were far too low and would have significantly exceeded our budget. Therefore, we have now created a new design together with a planner, which has also been roughly discussed with a builder and should be within our budget.
- Planner affiliated with a construction company: yes
- Architect: no
- Do-it-yourself: no
What do you like most? Why?
The large open living area on the ground floor with direct access to the garden.
What do you dislike? Why?
Basically, we like the layout on the ground floor very much and it fits our needs. However, we are concerned about the long staircase (17 steps) – we fear it might be too dark there. We are also worried about noise transmission from the large living area to the bedrooms. Skylights would be possible, but we’d prefer to avoid them to keep the roof design as simple as possible.
@Regarding darkness: The positioning and size of windows is not yet final – we welcome feedback here. As mentioned, we are concerned that the hallway areas, and perhaps also the large living room on the ground floor, could be too dark. Please share your ideas.
Also, there is a lot of hallway space in front of the toilet on the ground floor (along the stairs) – perhaps there is a better layout with less circulation space required?
Location and size of the utility room on the upper floor – it is located away from the bathroom and is too small to fit a drying rack.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Shell construction approx. 300,000 EUR
Personal maximum budget for the house, including fittings:
600,000 EUR
Preferred heating technology:
Geothermal energy (horizontal trench collector)
If you had to give up something, which details or expansions
- can you do without: garage (can be built later), garden fence, full build-out of the retaining wall, interior finishing of some rooms (guest bathroom, one children’s room, storage rooms), fireplace (can be built later)
- cannot do without: covered terrace, storage rooms and technical room
Why is the design the way it is?
Standard design from the planner?
Which wishes were implemented by the architect?
A mixture of many examples from various magazines...
What do you think is particularly good or bad about it?
The plot resulted from subdividing a large meadow. Neighboring plots are currently undeveloped (no buyers yet), so future development can only be guessed at. Therefore, we orient the bedrooms towards the garden. The plot southwest of ours is only 17 m (56 ft) wide. It is therefore likely that a future house there will be oriented roughly northeast-southwest (meaning it will extend further downslope than ours) and will potentially use the 8.5 m max building height.
Basically, the current plan is based on our experience with the architect’s design and the insights gained from many conversations with different trades to balance costs with our ideas.
What is the most important / fundamental question about the floor plan in 130 characters
How can I optimally use the sloped site to implement the spatial concept and keep costs under control? What could be improved?
we currently live in Vienna and have purchased a beautiful (and unfortunately very expensive) sloped plot west of Vienna. We already had an approved building permit plan (!) prepared by an architect, but in February we decided to stop the process. Through discussions with builders as well as other trades (window manufacturers, plumbers, electricians), we realized that this plan would exceed our initially agreed budget by approximately 30-40% in execution costs. Hence, we put on the brakes and started over: this time with an independent planner recommended to us by a builder who – in our opinion – is doing a good job and has developed the current plan together with us.
However, before we proceed towards the building permit plan, we would like to have your feedback to “challenge” the plan. As you can imagine, we have already invested a lot of time and nerves in this process with the architect, the restart, and back and forth, and if possible, we want to start building still in 2019… especially since one of the future residents of the two children’s bedrooms has already been born, and we want to move out of our small apartment as soon as possible.
Here is our questionnaire, which we hope gives you a good overview of our project:
Development plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 690 m² (19.5 m x 35.4 m) (7,432 sq ft (64 ft x 116 ft))
Slope: yes, approx. 5 m (16 ft) gradient over 35 m (115 ft) length
Site coverage ratio: not applicable in Austria, buildable area is 199 m² (2,141 sq ft)
Floor area ratio: not applicable in Austria
Building setback lines and boundaries: front and side setbacks each 3 m (10 ft) or half the eaves height of the adjacent house front, whichever is greater; rear setback 3 m (10 ft)
Edge construction: within the setback area up to a max height of 3 m (10 ft); higher height downhill allowed following terrain
Number of parking spaces: 1 unenclosed parking space required
Number of storeys: no restrictions in the development plan; currently 2 floors planned
Roof type: flat roof
Architectural style: Bauhaus
Orientation: southeast
Maximum heights / limits: 6.5 m (21 ft) on slope side / 8.5 m (28 ft) on valley side
Additional regulations:
Owners’ requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: Bauhaus, flat roof, single-family house
Basement, floors: 2 floors (for cost reasons), with the upper floor at street level and the ground floor partially built into the slope
Number of occupants, ages: 4, two adults (mid/late 30s) and two small children; medium-term expectation of adding an elderly person (grandmother)
Room requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Ground floor (essentially basement level): large living area with living room, dining area and spacious kitchen, guest WC with hand basin, hobby room and storage rooms as well as technical room
Upper floor (at street level): office/guest room, guest bathroom, wardrobe, large bathroom, walk-in closet (spatially separated from master bedroom), utility room plus 3 bedrooms (master bedroom, 2 children's rooms)
Office: family use or home office? Both
Number of guest stays per year: currently about 6 weekends per year, but potential for permanent guest room use
Open or closed architecture: open but focused on reducing noise transfer from the living area to the bedrooms
Conservative or modern construction: modern but timeless
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with large kitchen island (peninsula) and direct view contact to dining table
Number of dining seats: regularly 6 with possibility to expand to 10 for occasions
Fireplace: yes, on the ground floor in the living area – also to serve as room divider
Music / stereo wall: wall for large TV and floor-standing speakers
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: garage
Utility garden, greenhouse: raised beds for vegetables, preferably flat area for children’s play area (sandbox, swing, …), shrubs such as elderberry bush and butterfly bush along the property boundary
It is planned to raise the original ground level by up to 1.5 m (5 ft) to create a level area, which means a retaining wall will be necessary in the lower garden area.
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some things should or should not be included:
Controlled ventilation system, thermal building activation for cooling, heating via geothermal energy (horizontal trench collector)
The walk-in closet should be spatially separated (at least by a door) from the master bedroom (since one of us gets up earlier than the other and the second person should not be disturbed).
The bedroom windows are oriented directly to the garden to prevent views from neighbors.
Guest room / office and guest bathroom should be on the same level so guests can easily find their way at night.
Large, open space combining living room, dining room, and kitchen, with the area around the sofa and TV somewhat separated (niche).
House design
Origin of the planning:
We initially worked with an architect and already had an approved building permit plan. Unfortunately, based on quotes from builders, it became clear that the architect’s cost estimates were far too low and would have significantly exceeded our budget. Therefore, we have now created a new design together with a planner, which has also been roughly discussed with a builder and should be within our budget.
- Planner affiliated with a construction company: yes
- Architect: no
- Do-it-yourself: no
What do you like most? Why?
The large open living area on the ground floor with direct access to the garden.
What do you dislike? Why?
Basically, we like the layout on the ground floor very much and it fits our needs. However, we are concerned about the long staircase (17 steps) – we fear it might be too dark there. We are also worried about noise transmission from the large living area to the bedrooms. Skylights would be possible, but we’d prefer to avoid them to keep the roof design as simple as possible.
@Regarding darkness: The positioning and size of windows is not yet final – we welcome feedback here. As mentioned, we are concerned that the hallway areas, and perhaps also the large living room on the ground floor, could be too dark. Please share your ideas.
Also, there is a lot of hallway space in front of the toilet on the ground floor (along the stairs) – perhaps there is a better layout with less circulation space required?
Location and size of the utility room on the upper floor – it is located away from the bathroom and is too small to fit a drying rack.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner:
Shell construction approx. 300,000 EUR
Personal maximum budget for the house, including fittings:
600,000 EUR
Preferred heating technology:
Geothermal energy (horizontal trench collector)
If you had to give up something, which details or expansions
- can you do without: garage (can be built later), garden fence, full build-out of the retaining wall, interior finishing of some rooms (guest bathroom, one children’s room, storage rooms), fireplace (can be built later)
- cannot do without: covered terrace, storage rooms and technical room
Why is the design the way it is?
Standard design from the planner?
Which wishes were implemented by the architect?
A mixture of many examples from various magazines...
What do you think is particularly good or bad about it?
The plot resulted from subdividing a large meadow. Neighboring plots are currently undeveloped (no buyers yet), so future development can only be guessed at. Therefore, we orient the bedrooms towards the garden. The plot southwest of ours is only 17 m (56 ft) wide. It is therefore likely that a future house there will be oriented roughly northeast-southwest (meaning it will extend further downslope than ours) and will potentially use the 8.5 m max building height.
Basically, the current plan is based on our experience with the architect’s design and the insights gained from many conversations with different trades to balance costs with our ideas.
What is the most important / fundamental question about the floor plan in 130 characters
How can I optimally use the sloped site to implement the spatial concept and keep costs under control? What could be improved?
As long as we are still in the sketch phase, everything is still possible.
The cloakroom can be placed either on the left or right side of the plan.
The guest room can be moved further down the plan, and the other rooms can rotate... the garage does not interfere since it doesn’t have a window.
Of course, frailty is a significant factor! I even see the problem that a lady with a past is meant to be cared for selflessly, but is simultaneously excluded from the central living area. To me, this is implemented too inconsistently. You want to, but you can’t. Or you can, but you don’t want to.
I see the elderly lady, frail or not, at least in a condition to move closer to the children, preferably in a central location — that means the hobby room with access on the side. The space is available.
The cloakroom can be placed either on the left or right side of the plan.
The guest room can be moved further down the plan, and the other rooms can rotate... the garage does not interfere since it doesn’t have a window.
11ant schrieb:
Answer with “yes” or “no” — without being influenced by the degree of increasing frailty. The idea of “Grandma living with us” should appeal even without a walker, or it should be reconsidered.
Of course, frailty is a significant factor! I even see the problem that a lady with a past is meant to be cared for selflessly, but is simultaneously excluded from the central living area. To me, this is implemented too inconsistently. You want to, but you can’t. Or you can, but you don’t want to.
I see the elderly lady, frail or not, at least in a condition to move closer to the children, preferably in a central location — that means the hobby room with access on the side. The space is available.
ypg schrieb:
that means in the hobby room with an exit on the sideNo, not in any only if necessary repurposed room, but in a room planned specifically for and with grandma.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
F
Fuchsbauer29 May 2019 13:1411ant schrieb:
No, not in any only repurposed if necessary space, but rather in a room planned for and with Grandma. We would agree with you if Grandma’s move-in was already certain or foreseeable. The grandparents are currently in their early 60s, in good health, and live on a farm about 3 hours away. Considering the current condition of the great-grandmother, who at the proud age of 93 is still very active on the farm, we are hopefully still many years away from any possibility of her moving in.
Therefore, we feel that the discussion here has drifted somewhat in the wrong direction for us. Please don’t misunderstand, but we are not building the house for a grandmother who might move in many years down the line. We are building it as a place where we want to raise our children and live as a small family. It is reassuring to have the option and space to accommodate someone if necessary, but that should not be the main focus of our planning.
Good – if "grandma at the door" is still far enough away that the children might have already moved out by then, it’s of course unnecessary to focus on this now. I just wanted to say: if you personally say "yes" to the idea of "grandma living with us," then it should be a clear yes, agreed upon by everyone – including the house itself. And the latter, in my opinion, is only possible with designated rooms, not with repurposed spaces that are only moderately suitable for the new use. "Grandma living with us" means a grandma-focused room, located in the right place; otherwise, it will only work moderately well.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
F
Fuchsbauer29 May 2019 15:13Here is a new version of the plan (created without a planner due to vacation, so please be gentle) incorporating some of your suggestions:
The stairs have been moved to the left side and swapped in arrangement.
The wardrobe on the upper floor and the utility room have shifted to the right. The utility room has also been made larger and should hopefully be more functional now.
Due to the lack of space for an additional door, the toilet has been integrated into the bathroom. What do you think about the layout of the shower, bathtub, and toilet in the same room? Would this be workable? Honestly, we are still not completely happy with it. Maybe someone has a better idea for the arrangement of these elements or the two rooms in relation to each other?
(The currently unused space between the bathroom and garage could, if the floor plan remains as is, be allocated to the garage.)
The relocation of the stairs also benefits the storage room behind the kitchen on the lower ground floor, which has become slightly larger. The corridor in front of the bedrooms is quite wide at just under 1.7m (5.6 feet). If storage space is really lacking, a closet could be placed in front of the middle bedroom.
We will have to accept some sacrifices due to the changes in the walk-in closet. We can only fit about 6m (20 feet) of closet space there now.
The garage has been made a bit shorter. With the version from the initial post, we were already slightly exceeding the maximum allowable building footprint.
We look forward to your feedback—please be as critical as usual!
The stairs have been moved to the left side and swapped in arrangement.
The wardrobe on the upper floor and the utility room have shifted to the right. The utility room has also been made larger and should hopefully be more functional now.
Due to the lack of space for an additional door, the toilet has been integrated into the bathroom. What do you think about the layout of the shower, bathtub, and toilet in the same room? Would this be workable? Honestly, we are still not completely happy with it. Maybe someone has a better idea for the arrangement of these elements or the two rooms in relation to each other?
(The currently unused space between the bathroom and garage could, if the floor plan remains as is, be allocated to the garage.)
The relocation of the stairs also benefits the storage room behind the kitchen on the lower ground floor, which has become slightly larger. The corridor in front of the bedrooms is quite wide at just under 1.7m (5.6 feet). If storage space is really lacking, a closet could be placed in front of the middle bedroom.
We will have to accept some sacrifices due to the changes in the walk-in closet. We can only fit about 6m (20 feet) of closet space there now.
The garage has been made a bit shorter. With the version from the initial post, we were already slightly exceeding the maximum allowable building footprint.
We look forward to your feedback—please be as critical as usual!
Well, having grandma as a possible option might work. With the current floor plan, grandma or grandpa would have to manage independently without assistance or a walker. This is a typical “if you say A, you must also say B” situation.
If grandma or grandpa might need to stay in an emergency, the house must be designed accordingly. It’s not enough to just have a separate room. The bathroom needs to be larger, thresholds and steps removed, etc., which cannot be done later. A grandma with a walker or a grandpa who needs a caregiver in the morning cannot use the bathroom as planned, not even the one on the ground floor.
It’s either done properly (creating the right conditions in the floor plan, turning circles, wheelchair-accessible sink, things like that can’t be added later) or not at all.
If you take the approach of designing the house for a family of four without grandma, do you as a family of four need two bathrooms on the same floor or would you prefer one bathroom with a separate toilet?
If not, use the grandma’s bathroom as a utility room and plan for a bathroom with a separate toilet instead. Regarding the toilet as a possible compromise between open and separate (unfortunately, I can’t find a picture right now), the toilet would have a niche with a glass door, accessed from the main bathroom.
Do you understand what I mean?
If grandma or grandpa might need to stay in an emergency, the house must be designed accordingly. It’s not enough to just have a separate room. The bathroom needs to be larger, thresholds and steps removed, etc., which cannot be done later. A grandma with a walker or a grandpa who needs a caregiver in the morning cannot use the bathroom as planned, not even the one on the ground floor.
It’s either done properly (creating the right conditions in the floor plan, turning circles, wheelchair-accessible sink, things like that can’t be added later) or not at all.
If you take the approach of designing the house for a family of four without grandma, do you as a family of four need two bathrooms on the same floor or would you prefer one bathroom with a separate toilet?
If not, use the grandma’s bathroom as a utility room and plan for a bathroom with a separate toilet instead. Regarding the toilet as a possible compromise between open and separate (unfortunately, I can’t find a picture right now), the toilet would have a niche with a glass door, accessed from the main bathroom.
Do you understand what I mean?
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