ᐅ Omitting individual room control? Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery + gas heating, new build
Created on: 15 Mar 2019 08:16
K
Kabelmodem87
Hello,
I am currently planning the electrical and technical installations for our new build.
We are constructing with 42.5 Poroton bricks without insulation and have planned a gas heating system as well as a central controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Almost the entire house will be tiled, except for the children’s room and bedroom.
Now the question about the usefulness of 10 room thermostats, which would cost me €1500 gross without any self-labor, including valves and wiring, and which I find not very attractive on the wall. Additionally, there is continuous power consumption per radiator.
What I have read so far is that a hydraulic balancing is important, a well-adjusted heating curve depending on the outside temperature, and a system with a low flow temperature; then the individual rooms can be perfectly adjusted through the flow in the radiators. Due to door gaps and the ventilation system, it will anyway be difficult to maintain significant temperature differences.
I do not see what comfort the electronic radiator regulators (ERR) would bring, since the system is slow to respond anyway and would only react hours later when there is solar heat gain.
With modern gas boilers, there should also be the option to control the flow temperature externally via smartphone, for example from vacation, and thus lower or raise the whole house temperature by 1-2 degrees before arriving home.
I know that ERR is initially mandatory and you have to apply for an exemption. Do you see a chance that this will be approved? Is the architect together with the heating installer the right contact for the application? I think our installer always installs the room thermostats without considering whether they make sense.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation or has any tips or advice?
Please refrain from comments like “new build costs €500,000 but no €1500 for room thermostats,” this is about the principle of not buying something unnecessary and unattractive.
I am currently planning the electrical and technical installations for our new build.
We are constructing with 42.5 Poroton bricks without insulation and have planned a gas heating system as well as a central controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Almost the entire house will be tiled, except for the children’s room and bedroom.
Now the question about the usefulness of 10 room thermostats, which would cost me €1500 gross without any self-labor, including valves and wiring, and which I find not very attractive on the wall. Additionally, there is continuous power consumption per radiator.
What I have read so far is that a hydraulic balancing is important, a well-adjusted heating curve depending on the outside temperature, and a system with a low flow temperature; then the individual rooms can be perfectly adjusted through the flow in the radiators. Due to door gaps and the ventilation system, it will anyway be difficult to maintain significant temperature differences.
I do not see what comfort the electronic radiator regulators (ERR) would bring, since the system is slow to respond anyway and would only react hours later when there is solar heat gain.
With modern gas boilers, there should also be the option to control the flow temperature externally via smartphone, for example from vacation, and thus lower or raise the whole house temperature by 1-2 degrees before arriving home.
I know that ERR is initially mandatory and you have to apply for an exemption. Do you see a chance that this will be approved? Is the architect together with the heating installer the right contact for the application? I think our installer always installs the room thermostats without considering whether they make sense.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation or has any tips or advice?
Please refrain from comments like “new build costs €500,000 but no €1500 for room thermostats,” this is about the principle of not buying something unnecessary and unattractive.
I have already read quite a bit on this topic. I am convinced that the thermostats don’t make a difference because underfloor heating is too slow to respond. With controlled residential ventilation and/or open doors, the air is distributed throughout the entire house anyway. We don’t really use our ERV, and I don’t feel like it makes any difference.
In the next house, I’d like to do without it; I just need to convince my husband...
In the next house, I’d like to do without it; I just need to convince my husband...
B
boxandroof15 Mar 2019 11:04Zaba12 schrieb:
And from my perspective, it’s along the same lines as saying no to satellite dishes. You don’t need it, but if you want to sell the house later, people will look at you funny. You know what I mean? My first and only house viewing didn’t have an energy performance certificate (EPC); as a layperson, I thought, wow, what a botched job. When selling, an exemption can then be used as an argument against poor workmanship or even as a positive feature.
The EPC issue is especially relevant for heat pumps, where having an EPC has clear disadvantages. For gas, I agree with you. You can do it, but you don’t have to.
B
boxandroof15 Mar 2019 11:10Musketier schrieb:
How about installing empty conduits instead of the cables themselves? They can always be retrofitted later if needed.Then you might as well pull the cables now. After all, it’s only about 1,000 euros.
In almost all rooms (hallways were not prepared), we have the taped-over boxes for the thermostats with cables running to the distribution panel. In hindsight, I would have built everything without underfloor heating electric resistance cables (ERR); wireless controls are the backup.
What may not be compliant with regulations but can make sense is to supply two small rooms with just one shared circuit. For example, in our case, the guest bathroom and utility room share a circuit because that was the only way to get a reasonable cable length. You won’t be able to retrofit that later.
O
Obstlerbaum15 Mar 2019 14:33By the way, the energy saving regulation does not require electronically controlled thermostats; mechanical solutions are sufficient. These can simply be left fully open, and the issue is resolved.
The original poster wants to save these costs... I’m taking a bit of a risk here, but I doubt that the quoted 1500 includes anything other than exactly the mechanical measuring tapes you described.
I completely agree with the original poster—why throw money away on obsolete technology that is practically non-functional.
I completely agree with the original poster—why throw money away on obsolete technology that is practically non-functional.
K
Kabelmodem8715 Mar 2019 16:02Mycraft schrieb:
The original poster wants to save these costs... I’m taking a bit of a risk here, but I doubt that the quoted 1500 includes anything other than exactly the mechanical measuring instruments you describe.
I’m fully on the OP’s side on why throw money away on obsolete technology that basically doesn’t function.Yes, that’s how it looks. Just to clarify, the hydraulic balancing is done by the heating installer by adjusting the flow rate of the individual heating circuits? If, for example, I want the bathroom to be 1 degree warmer, the flow rate needs to be manually increased at the radiator valve (HKV). If there are 2 valves for the bathroom, do both need to be adjusted equally? Can a lot be messed up here and affect other rooms? Actually, no, because the pressure is kept constant? I understand that the maximum temperature depends on the supply temperature, but a 1–2-degree difference between bathroom and living room can still be well managed through flow rate adjustments, right?
If I want to lower or raise the temperature for the whole house, do I need to shift the supply temperature curve in parallel on the thermostat?
With controlled mechanical ventilation and underfloor heating, does it actually make sense to lower the temperature, for example, from 4 p.m. to midnight and raise it again from midnight to 4 p.m. to account for thermal inertia and reduce it by 1–2 degrees at night?
Thanks
Similar topics