ᐅ Omitting individual room control? Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery + gas heating, new build
Created on: 15 Mar 2019 08:16
K
Kabelmodem87
Hello,
I am currently planning the electrical and technical installations for our new build.
We are constructing with 42.5 Poroton bricks without insulation and have planned a gas heating system as well as a central controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Almost the entire house will be tiled, except for the children’s room and bedroom.
Now the question about the usefulness of 10 room thermostats, which would cost me €1500 gross without any self-labor, including valves and wiring, and which I find not very attractive on the wall. Additionally, there is continuous power consumption per radiator.
What I have read so far is that a hydraulic balancing is important, a well-adjusted heating curve depending on the outside temperature, and a system with a low flow temperature; then the individual rooms can be perfectly adjusted through the flow in the radiators. Due to door gaps and the ventilation system, it will anyway be difficult to maintain significant temperature differences.
I do not see what comfort the electronic radiator regulators (ERR) would bring, since the system is slow to respond anyway and would only react hours later when there is solar heat gain.
With modern gas boilers, there should also be the option to control the flow temperature externally via smartphone, for example from vacation, and thus lower or raise the whole house temperature by 1-2 degrees before arriving home.
I know that ERR is initially mandatory and you have to apply for an exemption. Do you see a chance that this will be approved? Is the architect together with the heating installer the right contact for the application? I think our installer always installs the room thermostats without considering whether they make sense.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation or has any tips or advice?
Please refrain from comments like “new build costs €500,000 but no €1500 for room thermostats,” this is about the principle of not buying something unnecessary and unattractive.
I am currently planning the electrical and technical installations for our new build.
We are constructing with 42.5 Poroton bricks without insulation and have planned a gas heating system as well as a central controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Almost the entire house will be tiled, except for the children’s room and bedroom.
Now the question about the usefulness of 10 room thermostats, which would cost me €1500 gross without any self-labor, including valves and wiring, and which I find not very attractive on the wall. Additionally, there is continuous power consumption per radiator.
What I have read so far is that a hydraulic balancing is important, a well-adjusted heating curve depending on the outside temperature, and a system with a low flow temperature; then the individual rooms can be perfectly adjusted through the flow in the radiators. Due to door gaps and the ventilation system, it will anyway be difficult to maintain significant temperature differences.
I do not see what comfort the electronic radiator regulators (ERR) would bring, since the system is slow to respond anyway and would only react hours later when there is solar heat gain.
With modern gas boilers, there should also be the option to control the flow temperature externally via smartphone, for example from vacation, and thus lower or raise the whole house temperature by 1-2 degrees before arriving home.
I know that ERR is initially mandatory and you have to apply for an exemption. Do you see a chance that this will be approved? Is the architect together with the heating installer the right contact for the application? I think our installer always installs the room thermostats without considering whether they make sense.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation or has any tips or advice?
Please refrain from comments like “new build costs €500,000 but no €1500 for room thermostats,” this is about the principle of not buying something unnecessary and unattractive.
At the time, I was not aware of the exemption regulations, so the ERR were initially installed in my case. However, I have mostly deactivated them afterward.
An exception is, for example, the guest room. It is kept slightly heated by default but should be adjustable to a higher setting when in use. This should be possible without manual adjustment at the heating circuit distributor.
However, we do not have a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
An exception is, for example, the guest room. It is kept slightly heated by default but should be adjustable to a higher setting when in use. This should be possible without manual adjustment at the heating circuit distributor.
However, we do not have a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
O
Obstlerbaum15 Mar 2019 10:33Kabelmodem87 schrieb:
But the initial cost is also 5000€ higher and the electricity price is uncertain. Gas is still well established in Germany, even in many public institutions, so they don’t quickly raise prices drastically, at least in my opinion.[...] Where does the myth about the higher purchase price come from? Gas plus solar thermal would have been significantly more expensive by a good margin than our air-to-water heat pump.
My personal opinion: this is the same debate as whether to install a smart thermostat or not, except that in this case you also need to obtain a permit / planning permission.
From my perspective, it also fits into the same category as opting out of a smart thermostat. You don’t really need it, but if you want to sell the house later, it might reflect poorly. Do you see what I mean? My first and only house viewing had no energy recovery ventilation (ERV); as a layperson, I thought, wow, what a mess.
No one expects to sell their house within 10-15 years. But personally, I think building without an ERV reduces the value of the property, just like not having a smart thermostat.
Why don’t you combine the heating circuits onto one ERV? You probably have an open-plan living area! I ended up with eight controllers including the basement, even though I know I only adjust them two or three times a year because of the thermal inertia. There are also toggle switches and ERV combinations where it’s not immediately noticeable. The extra cost of about 40€ (around 43 USD) per controller was really too much for me, but the separate ERV controller doesn’t bother me.
In our case, among other things, the heating manifold box on the ground floor is “hidden” behind a sideboard. Moving it two or three times a year is annoying.
From my perspective, it also fits into the same category as opting out of a smart thermostat. You don’t really need it, but if you want to sell the house later, it might reflect poorly. Do you see what I mean? My first and only house viewing had no energy recovery ventilation (ERV); as a layperson, I thought, wow, what a mess.
No one expects to sell their house within 10-15 years. But personally, I think building without an ERV reduces the value of the property, just like not having a smart thermostat.
Why don’t you combine the heating circuits onto one ERV? You probably have an open-plan living area! I ended up with eight controllers including the basement, even though I know I only adjust them two or three times a year because of the thermal inertia. There are also toggle switches and ERV combinations where it’s not immediately noticeable. The extra cost of about 40€ (around 43 USD) per controller was really too much for me, but the separate ERV controller doesn’t bother me.
In our case, among other things, the heating manifold box on the ground floor is “hidden” behind a sideboard. Moving it two or three times a year is annoying.
B
boxandroof15 Mar 2019 10:56hampshire schrieb:
Flat roofs and photovoltaic systems work very well (as long as there are no shading issues). Raise the edges of the roof slightly, install a 10kWp east-west mounted system on supports, and you get electricity without changing the architecture. Priority should be given to self-consumption (battery storage), feed excess production into the grid. If the liquidity is available, this is a "no-brainer". The discussion here was about whether controlled mechanical ventilation can replace natural ventilation regardless of roof shape. This initially has nothing to do with the roof shape; only pitched roofs tend to be easier and more cost-effective to insulate, but it depends.
Photovoltaic systems definitely make sense. Batteries are not yet cost-effective.
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