ᐅ Omitting individual room control? Mechanical ventilation with heat recovery + gas heating, new build
Created on: 15 Mar 2019 08:16
K
Kabelmodem87
Hello,
I am currently planning the electrical and technical installations for our new build.
We are constructing with 42.5 Poroton bricks without insulation and have planned a gas heating system as well as a central controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Almost the entire house will be tiled, except for the children’s room and bedroom.
Now the question about the usefulness of 10 room thermostats, which would cost me €1500 gross without any self-labor, including valves and wiring, and which I find not very attractive on the wall. Additionally, there is continuous power consumption per radiator.
What I have read so far is that a hydraulic balancing is important, a well-adjusted heating curve depending on the outside temperature, and a system with a low flow temperature; then the individual rooms can be perfectly adjusted through the flow in the radiators. Due to door gaps and the ventilation system, it will anyway be difficult to maintain significant temperature differences.
I do not see what comfort the electronic radiator regulators (ERR) would bring, since the system is slow to respond anyway and would only react hours later when there is solar heat gain.
With modern gas boilers, there should also be the option to control the flow temperature externally via smartphone, for example from vacation, and thus lower or raise the whole house temperature by 1-2 degrees before arriving home.
I know that ERR is initially mandatory and you have to apply for an exemption. Do you see a chance that this will be approved? Is the architect together with the heating installer the right contact for the application? I think our installer always installs the room thermostats without considering whether they make sense.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation or has any tips or advice?
Please refrain from comments like “new build costs €500,000 but no €1500 for room thermostats,” this is about the principle of not buying something unnecessary and unattractive.
I am currently planning the electrical and technical installations for our new build.
We are constructing with 42.5 Poroton bricks without insulation and have planned a gas heating system as well as a central controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. Almost the entire house will be tiled, except for the children’s room and bedroom.
Now the question about the usefulness of 10 room thermostats, which would cost me €1500 gross without any self-labor, including valves and wiring, and which I find not very attractive on the wall. Additionally, there is continuous power consumption per radiator.
What I have read so far is that a hydraulic balancing is important, a well-adjusted heating curve depending on the outside temperature, and a system with a low flow temperature; then the individual rooms can be perfectly adjusted through the flow in the radiators. Due to door gaps and the ventilation system, it will anyway be difficult to maintain significant temperature differences.
I do not see what comfort the electronic radiator regulators (ERR) would bring, since the system is slow to respond anyway and would only react hours later when there is solar heat gain.
With modern gas boilers, there should also be the option to control the flow temperature externally via smartphone, for example from vacation, and thus lower or raise the whole house temperature by 1-2 degrees before arriving home.
I know that ERR is initially mandatory and you have to apply for an exemption. Do you see a chance that this will be approved? Is the architect together with the heating installer the right contact for the application? I think our installer always installs the room thermostats without considering whether they make sense.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation or has any tips or advice?
Please refrain from comments like “new build costs €500,000 but no €1500 for room thermostats,” this is about the principle of not buying something unnecessary and unattractive.
Exactly, you just need to think briefly about who actually receives this exemption request. It’s some clerk at the office. First, they’ll start researching what ERR actually means. After asking four colleagues and their manager, consulting Google and the relevant regulations, they find out that the Energy Saving Ordinance requires ERR and initially reject the request.
It’s like in some offices: there’s a dusty folder somewhere with core working hours listed as “from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m.” Then the situation arises where someone needs to leave at 2 p.m. There’s Type A, who simply informs a colleague that they are leaving now, and that’s it. Then there’s Type B, who digs out the folder, asks seven colleagues whether it’s allowed to leave earlier and if there is a standard form for signing out, checks with the office staff, and even tries to catch the manager to debate it — who is at the end annoyed and stressed and snaps at Type B “Core working hours until 3 p.m., and today I need you until 6 p.m.!”
It’s like in some offices: there’s a dusty folder somewhere with core working hours listed as “from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m.” Then the situation arises where someone needs to leave at 2 p.m. There’s Type A, who simply informs a colleague that they are leaving now, and that’s it. Then there’s Type B, who digs out the folder, asks seven colleagues whether it’s allowed to leave earlier and if there is a standard form for signing out, checks with the office staff, and even tries to catch the manager to debate it — who is at the end annoyed and stressed and snaps at Type B “Core working hours until 3 p.m., and today I need you until 6 p.m.!”
K
Kabelmodem8715 Mar 2019 09:09Lumpi_LE schrieb:
Exactly, you just have to think briefly about who actually receives this exemption application. Some clerk at the government office. That person will first start researching what ERR actually means. After asking four colleagues and their supervisor, consulting Google and the regulations, they find out that the Energy Saving Ordinance requires ERR and initially reject the application.
It’s like in some offices: There’s some dusty folder somewhere that contains the core working hours “9 a.m. to 3 p.m.” Then the situation arises where someone needs to leave at 2 p.m. There’s Type A, who just informs a colleague that they are leaving, and that’s it. Then there’s Type B, who digs out the folder, asks seven colleagues whether leaving early is allowed, if there is a formal leave request form, checks with the administration office, and tries to catch the boss to discuss it — who is at the end irritated and stressed and snaps at Type B, “Core working hours end at 3 p.m., and today I need them until 6!” …Yes, that is sad. I also fear a rejection, which would imply even more deliberate intent.
The next economic nonsense is the requirement to install a solar system costing €6,000 (about $6,600) on the roof for domestic hot water as a penalty for having a natural gas boiler. It does not pay off in 30 years, but no exemption will be granted for it and non-compliance could be expensive. A country of thinkers and poets...
K
Kabelmodem8715 Mar 2019 09:28Lumpi_LE schrieb:
That's why a heat pump combined with photovoltaic panels makes more sense; it pays off in the long run.However, the initial cost is about 5,000€ (around $5,400) higher, and electricity prices are uncertain. Gas is still well established in Germany, even in many public institutions, so they are less likely to raise prices drastically—at least that’s my opinion.
For a possible retrofit using wireless technology in individual rooms, would it be sufficient if a few 3x1.5mm (3x16 AWG) cables are installed in the heating manifold? That should make it fairly easy to add a control system with battery-powered room thermostats and wireless valves later on, just in case.
The best approach will probably be to discuss this with the heating engineer once they are confirmed.
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