ᐅ Multi-generational house with an underground garage for three families
Created on: 11 Mar 2019 09:55
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Muc1985
Hello everyone,
After reading quietly for a while and really appreciating all the ideas shared here, I’d like to bring up a topic and hopefully get some feedback, suggestions, and ideas!
I am 34 years old and originally from Munich, where I was born and raised.
Currently, we (my wife and I, with a child on the way, my sister and her partner, as well as my parents) are discussing whether to completely rebuild on our plot of land (currently occupied by a single-family house / 1000 sqm (0.25 acres) / 20 × 50 m (65 × 164 ft) / no zoning plan). The idea is to build a fairly modern house with two spacious living areas (each with its own terrace overlooking the garden, large living and dining areas, etc., and about 200 sqm (2150 sq ft) of living space), including an underground garage and a basement. A granny flat (or accessory dwelling unit) is also planned to be integrated.
I would like to start a discussion based on these ideas and am looking forward to any input or constructive criticism.
Thank you very much.
After reading quietly for a while and really appreciating all the ideas shared here, I’d like to bring up a topic and hopefully get some feedback, suggestions, and ideas!
I am 34 years old and originally from Munich, where I was born and raised.
Currently, we (my wife and I, with a child on the way, my sister and her partner, as well as my parents) are discussing whether to completely rebuild on our plot of land (currently occupied by a single-family house / 1000 sqm (0.25 acres) / 20 × 50 m (65 × 164 ft) / no zoning plan). The idea is to build a fairly modern house with two spacious living areas (each with its own terrace overlooking the garden, large living and dining areas, etc., and about 200 sqm (2150 sq ft) of living space), including an underground garage and a basement. A granny flat (or accessory dwelling unit) is also planned to be integrated.
I would like to start a discussion based on these ideas and am looking forward to any input or constructive criticism.
Thank you very much.
ypg schrieb:
However, not everyone needs their own underground garage access, so a driveway about 8.9 meters (29 feet) long and 4 meters (13 feet) wide, totaling 40 m² (430 ft²), is sufficient. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, but this is about a medium-sized garage (>100 m² (1,076 ft²) usable area, for 6 parking spaces plus circulation area), and the following applies:
(1) Ramps in medium and large garages must not exceed a 15% slope [...]
(2) Between the public road and a ramp with more than a 10% slope, there must be a less steep section with a slope of less than 5% and a minimum length of 3 meters (10 feet).
With a height difference of 3 meters (10 feet), this results in (2 x 3 m (10 ft) at 5% = 1.2 m (4 ft) and 12 m (39 ft) at 15% = 1.8 m (6 ft)) a total underground garage access length of 18 meters (59 feet).
Okay, my original 25 meters (82 feet) estimate was exaggerated; back then, I calculated using a maximum slope of 10%.
RomeoZwo schrieb:
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, but this is a mid-sized garage (>100m2 (1076 sq ft) usable area, for 6 parking spaces and traffic areas) and the following applies:
(1) Ramps in medium and large garages must not exceed a 15% gradient [...]
(2) Between public traffic areas and a ramp with more than a 10% slope, there must be a less steep section with a slope of less than 5% and at least 3m (10 feet) long.
With a height difference of 3m (10 feet), that results in (2 x 3m (10 feet) at 5% = 1.2m (4 feet) and 12m (39 feet) at 15% = 1.8m (6 feet)) an 18m (59 feet) underground garage access.
Okay, my 25m (82 feet) estimate was exaggerated; I had calculated it assuming a maximum slope of 10%.You are probably correct if private garages are also included. And then... yes, then... the idea of an underground garage on these 1000m2 (10,764 sq ft), plus all the additional requirements, is simply an idea that shouldn’t be pursued.
That leaves only the duplex with a recessed upper floor, although in my humble opinion, an accessible granny flat is not the same as a unit with an elevator. What expectations are associated with this apartment?
It’s only 1000m2 (10,764 sq ft), but these square meters have a different value in Munich than in rural areas.
@RomeoZwo and @ypg. I really appreciate and value your expert contributions. Comments like these are especially interesting to me.
The expectations for the secondary apartment need to be clarified in the short term. The expectations for the other two areas are basically settled, although the term "settled" is, of course, quite broad here!
We initially mentioned the underground parking plan because, in two neighboring new developments (plot 1 approx. 890 m² (9,575 sq ft) / plot 2 approx. 1100 m² (11,840 sq ft)), an underground parking garage was constructed for each...
ypg schrieb:
What expectations are attached to the apartment?
The expectations for the secondary apartment need to be clarified in the short term. The expectations for the other two areas are basically settled, although the term "settled" is, of course, quite broad here!
We initially mentioned the underground parking plan because, in two neighboring new developments (plot 1 approx. 890 m² (9,575 sq ft) / plot 2 approx. 1100 m² (11,840 sq ft)), an underground parking garage was constructed for each...
ypg schrieb:
It is only 1000 m² (10,760 sq ft), but these square meters have a different value in Munich than they do for us in rural areas.
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Mottenhausen12 Mar 2019 14:19This setup unfortunately has a high potential to end in private chaos. Don’t underestimate it—almost everyone faces neighborhood disputes or family conflicts. Without clear formal or structural separations, the situation will only get worse.
During construction, there will be many instances where things don’t go as planned and/or become more expensive. Trying to get all three parties to agree every single time simply won’t work. Do your parents understand modern Cat7 wiring and smart home systems, even if they don’t need them, but the entire house’s cost increases significantly because of it? Do you understand your sister’s increased need for security, even though it leads to avoidable expenses for higher security ratings? Does your sister appreciate the durable and expensive clay roof tiles you want? This might sound a bit exaggerated or obvious, but you will find yourselves in this kind of disagreement at least 100 times, and no one can convince me that three parties will always share the same opinion—especially when it concerns amounts in the mid five-figure range. The idea that money doesn’t matter is nonsense: everyone has a budget, and priorities within that budget differ. This inevitably leads to very interesting 2 versus 1 votes where the outvoted party will eventually be fed up. I guarantee it!
During construction, there will be many instances where things don’t go as planned and/or become more expensive. Trying to get all three parties to agree every single time simply won’t work. Do your parents understand modern Cat7 wiring and smart home systems, even if they don’t need them, but the entire house’s cost increases significantly because of it? Do you understand your sister’s increased need for security, even though it leads to avoidable expenses for higher security ratings? Does your sister appreciate the durable and expensive clay roof tiles you want? This might sound a bit exaggerated or obvious, but you will find yourselves in this kind of disagreement at least 100 times, and no one can convince me that three parties will always share the same opinion—especially when it concerns amounts in the mid five-figure range. The idea that money doesn’t matter is nonsense: everyone has a budget, and priorities within that budget differ. This inevitably leads to very interesting 2 versus 1 votes where the outvoted party will eventually be fed up. I guarantee it!
@Mottenhausen thanks for the important points.
From my past experience, I can say that I have never had any issues within the family, and I would be very surprised if it were to escalate. I am familiar with living in a multi-generational house myself, and so far it has worked without any problems (for a very long time...). Nevertheless, these are very important remarks that must be taken into account!!!
From my past experience, I can say that I have never had any issues within the family, and I would be very surprised if it were to escalate. I am familiar with living in a multi-generational house myself, and so far it has worked without any problems (for a very long time...). Nevertheless, these are very important remarks that must be taken into account!!!
Is it possible to bypass the underground garage requirement by building a car elevator like that? That would effectively be two floors plus a basement, so you would then only need "three" parking spaces and less traffic area in front. I have no idea about the costs, but compared to an underground garage and ramp, it might be manageable? The question remains where to put it, since that would also mean two levels.
I also like the idea of a semi-detached house with a recessed granny flat on the ground floor.
I also like the idea of a semi-detached house with a recessed granny flat on the ground floor.
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