Hello everyone,
I have been reading here for a while, and now it’s time for us to start planning the floor plan. We had our first appointment with the architect this week and have already shared our ideas with him as preparation. We received a first draft, which we will discuss during our meeting. Additionally, we created some rough sketches ourselves (without considering structural issues, windows, the staircase is drawn way too small, etc. – really just very basic to clarify our ideas, I’m attaching those as well).
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: 635 sqm (6,840 sq ft)
House size: 135 sqm (1,450 sq ft)
Number of floors: 1.5
Roof type: Gable roof
Maximum heights / limits: Knee wall 1.20 m (4 ft)
(We would have preferred a bungalow or a townhouse, but unfortunately, there are no plots available here. We are happy to have found one at all, even if that means we have to accept 1.5 floors and a knee wall.)
Client requirements
Basement, floors: no basement
Number of occupants, age: 2 persons, 39 years old (children are 90% unlikely to be planned)
Office: Home office about once a week – although I usually work from the living room with my laptop
Guest stays: maybe 2 to 3 times a year, so far managed without a guest room in the apartment
Architecture: open plan
Construction style: modern
Kitchen: an island kitchen probably won’t fit, but it should be an open kitchen, possibly with a breakfast bar
Dining seats: 4 to 6 – for occasional visitors – but that could also work by putting in a dining table as needed and otherwise using a kitchen breakfast bar daily
Fireplace: rather no, due to cost and space reasons
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace
Garage, carport: carport
Desired ground floor layout:
Includes utility room, guest WC, hallway, living area (consisting of living room, kitchen, dining area/other)
Entrance and ancillary rooms:
- small hallway with space for a coat rack
- utility room about 8 sqm (86 sq ft), space for technical equipment, washing machine, dog food & co.
- guest WC max. 3 sqm (32 sq ft); no guest shower needed
Living area:
- quick access from the entrance to the living area, ideally directly to the kitchen
- living/kitchen/dining area as large as possible (ideally approx. 50 sqm (540 sq ft)), minimizing space wasted by other areas/rooms on the ground floor
- kitchen possibly with island/breakfast bar if space allows
- book corner with window seat if space allows (for info: I have about 1,000 books and a piano – these need to be accommodated somewhere)
- space-saving staircase, preferably open/integrated in the living area to save hallway space
Desired upper floor layout:
Includes bathroom, bedroom, dressing room, hobby room, another room (possibly office, guest room)
Bathroom:
- bathroom with walk-in shower + bathtub (freestanding = nice to have)
- possible wall separation for the toilet (if it fits)
Sleeping area and dressing room:
- bedroom with walk-in closet/dressing room, if feasible given house size
- access from bedroom to dressing room and bathroom
Additional rooms:
- hobby room with space for desk, crafting corner, small seating area
- another room as office/sports/guest room or possibly a child’s room after all – alternatively, a larger hallway/gallery with seating area and light well to the floor below
House design
Designed by: planner/architect from a design-build company
What don’t we like? Why?
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: $240,000 – that is also the financial plan (excluding kitchen or additional furniture, plot and landscaping – total budget is about $400,000)
Preferred heating technology: air-source heat pump
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes could you do without? very reluctantly the dressing/walk-in closet
What is the most important fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
How should we best proceed with the draft? Are there ideas that could help us align better with our wishes for the discussion? Which ideas should we discard?
A few more remarks: Reading other posts here sometimes makes me feel guilty because we are “only” building 135 sqm and everything seems so “small.” Still, I want to get the best possible value for my money. Financially, this size is the most reasonable for now.
(PS: And in case the question arises: Why are children only 90% excluded? There are many reasons – for example, difficulties conceiving, but not completely giving up hope.)
Thank you in advance for your opinions.
I have been reading here for a while, and now it’s time for us to start planning the floor plan. We had our first appointment with the architect this week and have already shared our ideas with him as preparation. We received a first draft, which we will discuss during our meeting. Additionally, we created some rough sketches ourselves (without considering structural issues, windows, the staircase is drawn way too small, etc. – really just very basic to clarify our ideas, I’m attaching those as well).
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: 635 sqm (6,840 sq ft)
House size: 135 sqm (1,450 sq ft)
Number of floors: 1.5
Roof type: Gable roof
Maximum heights / limits: Knee wall 1.20 m (4 ft)
(We would have preferred a bungalow or a townhouse, but unfortunately, there are no plots available here. We are happy to have found one at all, even if that means we have to accept 1.5 floors and a knee wall.)
Client requirements
Basement, floors: no basement
Number of occupants, age: 2 persons, 39 years old (children are 90% unlikely to be planned)
Office: Home office about once a week – although I usually work from the living room with my laptop
Guest stays: maybe 2 to 3 times a year, so far managed without a guest room in the apartment
Architecture: open plan
Construction style: modern
Kitchen: an island kitchen probably won’t fit, but it should be an open kitchen, possibly with a breakfast bar
Dining seats: 4 to 6 – for occasional visitors – but that could also work by putting in a dining table as needed and otherwise using a kitchen breakfast bar daily
Fireplace: rather no, due to cost and space reasons
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace
Garage, carport: carport
Desired ground floor layout:
Includes utility room, guest WC, hallway, living area (consisting of living room, kitchen, dining area/other)
Entrance and ancillary rooms:
- small hallway with space for a coat rack
- utility room about 8 sqm (86 sq ft), space for technical equipment, washing machine, dog food & co.
- guest WC max. 3 sqm (32 sq ft); no guest shower needed
Living area:
- quick access from the entrance to the living area, ideally directly to the kitchen
- living/kitchen/dining area as large as possible (ideally approx. 50 sqm (540 sq ft)), minimizing space wasted by other areas/rooms on the ground floor
- kitchen possibly with island/breakfast bar if space allows
- book corner with window seat if space allows (for info: I have about 1,000 books and a piano – these need to be accommodated somewhere)
- space-saving staircase, preferably open/integrated in the living area to save hallway space
Desired upper floor layout:
Includes bathroom, bedroom, dressing room, hobby room, another room (possibly office, guest room)
Bathroom:
- bathroom with walk-in shower + bathtub (freestanding = nice to have)
- possible wall separation for the toilet (if it fits)
Sleeping area and dressing room:
- bedroom with walk-in closet/dressing room, if feasible given house size
- access from bedroom to dressing room and bathroom
Additional rooms:
- hobby room with space for desk, crafting corner, small seating area
- another room as office/sports/guest room or possibly a child’s room after all – alternatively, a larger hallway/gallery with seating area and light well to the floor below
House design
Designed by: planner/architect from a design-build company
What don’t we like? Why?
- Narrow galley kitchen. I already have this in my apartment and don’t want it anymore. Is it really not possible to do it differently? Structural or other reasons?
- Staircase located in the dirty area. Shoes, dirt, etc. I don’t want to walk through that every time I go upstairs.
- Dressing room under a sloped ceiling. Not much space left for wardrobes...
- Office only 7 sqm (75 sq ft). Does that make sense? If, against expectations, a child arrives, this would be the hobby room, which would then be much too small.
- Bathrooms. Does the layout make sense? I always thought they should be arranged above/below each other.
- Technical equipment. Could it also be located in the attic?
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: $240,000 – that is also the financial plan (excluding kitchen or additional furniture, plot and landscaping – total budget is about $400,000)
Preferred heating technology: air-source heat pump
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes could you do without? very reluctantly the dressing/walk-in closet
What is the most important fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
How should we best proceed with the draft? Are there ideas that could help us align better with our wishes for the discussion? Which ideas should we discard?
A few more remarks: Reading other posts here sometimes makes me feel guilty because we are “only” building 135 sqm and everything seems so “small.” Still, I want to get the best possible value for my money. Financially, this size is the most reasonable for now.
(PS: And in case the question arises: Why are children only 90% excluded? There are many reasons – for example, difficulties conceiving, but not completely giving up hope.)
Thank you in advance for your opinions.
Reluctance schrieb:
As it currently stands, we have about 68sqm (730 sq ft) available on the ground floor and less on the upper floor, if you consider just the living area. The calculation is based on the net living area (roughly the floor area – which adds up to a total of 135sqm (1,452 sq ft). Where is that stated? What are you referring to?
Reluctance schrieb:
because it does not correspond to the typical local development.Based on what you posted here, my suggestion fits.
What are you leaving out from us here?
Are you now referring to that one proposal from the developer? Surely, they have other alternatives available.
Reluctance schrieb:
by the way: I was too tired for the upper floor now Unfortunately, I am too now.
R
Reluctance24 Feb 2019 09:1911ant schrieb:
I don’t quite follow: why would structural engineering be an issue with an entrance on the gable side?I was referring more to the overall floor plan. As I said, I’m not an architect and have no idea what else I need to consider.
ypg schrieb:
Where is that stated? What are you referring to?Our contract with the developer and the financial plan.
ypg schrieb:
Based on what you’ve shared here, my suggestion fits.
What are you leaving out from us here?I’m not leaving anything out. Unlike you, I can walk around the area and see that there are no stepped buildings (if that’s what you meant), so something like that probably wouldn’t be approved in the building permit / planning permission if the requirement is “like neighboring buildings/local customary style.”
I think Yvonne meant, in general, to make the ground floor larger and plan the living/dining/kitchen/guest and reading/small bathroom/utility room there, then use a more pitched gable roof with a 120 cm (47 inch) knee wall (22 to 25°) and place the sleeping/dressing/large bathroom areas in the upstairs standing area. Because you haven’t provided any specifications for the required pitch of the gable roof.
However, the house price of 240,000 and your wishes don’t really match the space requirements. What you listed definitely exceeds 120/130 sqm (1,292/1,400 sq ft). The planner’s house in the first post has 120 sqm (1,292 sq ft) of living space, and as you can see, some rooms are quite small. The dressing room is barely usable and offers little closet space, etc.
And unfortunately, the site plan still lacks measurements. Does the house really have to be built so close to the street? If you want to engage in a MEANINGFUL planning and concept process, you need ALL the information about the plot.
Will the shed at the end of the newly planned access road for the rear building be demolished?
However, the house price of 240,000 and your wishes don’t really match the space requirements. What you listed definitely exceeds 120/130 sqm (1,292/1,400 sq ft). The planner’s house in the first post has 120 sqm (1,292 sq ft) of living space, and as you can see, some rooms are quite small. The dressing room is barely usable and offers little closet space, etc.
And unfortunately, the site plan still lacks measurements. Does the house really have to be built so close to the street? If you want to engage in a MEANINGFUL planning and concept process, you need ALL the information about the plot.
Will the shed at the end of the newly planned access road for the rear building be demolished?
R
Reluctance24 Feb 2019 10:23kbt09 schrieb:
I think Yvonne was mainly suggesting to generally make the ground floor larger and plan living/dining/kitchen/guest space and reading/small bathroom/utility room there, then use a rather steep gable roof with a knee wall height of 120 cm (47 inches) (22 to 25°) and accommodate sleeping/dressing/large bathroom in the standing area upstairs.Yes, and as I said, the area is calculated based on net living area. That means, if I enlarge the ground floor—for example to about 90 sqm (970 sq ft)—then I have an upper floor with a floor area of also 90 sqm (970 sq ft), whether usable or not. That brings me to 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) net living area. The contractually agreed net living area is 135 sqm (1,450 sq ft).
I’m unsure how it works when a knee wall is added—that is, a drywall or additional wall on the roof side. Does the area behind it still count as net living area (I am afraid it does)? … I will check on that…
kbt09 schrieb:
Because you haven’t given any details on the required slope of the gable roof.Yes, 35 to 55 degrees.
kbt09 schrieb:
The architect’s house in the first post has 120 sqm (1,290 sq ft) of living space.Correct, because in the upper floor living area is lost due to the knee wall. As I have mentioned before, we originally planned a city villa or bungalow—nothing with a knee wall. Here, net living area was essentially the same as living space. Since we lost the original plot at the last minute (the notary appointment was already set and so was the financing), we had to redesign everything and try to stay within the existing financing and contract.
kbt09 schrieb:
Does the house have to be built so close to the street?I assume so. That’s how the neighboring buildings are positioned. The development plan doesn’t specify this clearly as far as I can tell, but it says "typical for the area"—and the houses are all quite far forward, mostly directly at the street (without fences or with fences aligned as an extension of the front wall).
kbt09 schrieb:
The shed at the end of the newly planned access road for the rear building will be demolished?Yes, it’s a large residential/construction trailer. It will be removed.
kbt09 schrieb:
It really is the case that if you want to work on a planning idea sensibly, you need ALL information about the plot.I understand that. It’s also fine if no help is possible right now. As soon as I have any relevant information, I will share it with you. We don’t own the land yet; no surveyor has been there. The notary appointment is in two weeks...
If I had known from the start that I’d be building with a knee wall, I would have done exactly what Yvonne suggested (larger area on the ground floor and only a few rooms upstairs). But I can ask again.
In your plan in post 1, you have 69.5 m² (749 ft²) of living space on the ground floor and 55 m² (592 ft²) on the upper floor.
What does it mean when 135 m² (1,452 ft²) is agreed upon?
Can the knee wall be up to 120 cm (47 inches), or is it required to be that height?
I hope you are gathering all these questions to eventually post the answers together in ONE message along with the site plan, building dimensions, etc.
What does it mean when 135 m² (1,452 ft²) is agreed upon?
Can the knee wall be up to 120 cm (47 inches), or is it required to be that height?
I hope you are gathering all these questions to eventually post the answers together in ONE message along with the site plan, building dimensions, etc.
Reluctance schrieb:
Unlike you, I can walk around and see that no terraced houses are built there (if that’s what you meant)Did I say anything about terraced houses?
I am still the one who advocated for preserving the village character.
Reluctance schrieb:
The contractually agreed living area is 135 sqm (1450 sq ft).I don’t understand the contractual arrangement where the square meterage is fixed in the contract and cannot be changed. Not to mention your own budget.
Reluctance schrieb:
If I had known from the start that I would be building with knee walls, I would have done it exactly as Yvonne suggested (larger area on the ground floor and only a few rooms upstairs). But I can ask again.As I said before: usually you can change the house layout quite freely. The only restrictions are the building regulations.
My budget also limits me.
At the moment, I don’t understand what kind of contractual arrangement this is.
And don’t take it the wrong way if I have trouble believing some of it:
You don’t even know the exact external dimensions of the lot, yet you talk about a contractual limit on the living area.
The start here was also quite slow – first no information, supposedly because none exists, then a whole list of restrictions...
It seems to me currently that you are not becoming homeowners in the usual sense, but that the builder is dictating the house to you.
The question is whether you are genuinely restricted or if you just don’t know any better.
Similar topics