ᐅ Grade beam and wooden beam ceiling in a hip roof – optimal solution?
Created on: 2 Feb 2019 20:31
U
ufr123Hello everyone,
Our current plan for a two-story house with a hip roof ("Tuscan house") includes the following roof construction:
The top floor ceiling is designed as a wooden beam ceiling. The roof rafters rest on a reinforced concrete ring beam. The rest of the construction is solid masonry using bricks.
Now two general contractors have told us that this construction method is significantly more expensive due to the ring beam, and that a solid concrete ceiling supporting the roof rafters would be the technically and economically more favorable option. They also said that the summer thermal insulation would be better with the concrete ceiling.
However, this would make the house taller than in our current plan, which we actually like quite a bit.
What do you think? Is a concrete ceiling really the better option?
Thank you very much for your feedback,
ufr123
Our current plan for a two-story house with a hip roof ("Tuscan house") includes the following roof construction:
The top floor ceiling is designed as a wooden beam ceiling. The roof rafters rest on a reinforced concrete ring beam. The rest of the construction is solid masonry using bricks.
Now two general contractors have told us that this construction method is significantly more expensive due to the ring beam, and that a solid concrete ceiling supporting the roof rafters would be the technically and economically more favorable option. They also said that the summer thermal insulation would be better with the concrete ceiling.
However, this would make the house taller than in our current plan, which we actually like quite a bit.
What do you think? Is a concrete ceiling really the better option?
Thank you very much for your feedback,
ufr123
Hello,
I have to agree with Nordlys, a concrete ceiling is usually significantly more expensive (but also of higher quality).
If your general contractor can even offer the concrete ceiling at a lower price, I would have the construction method written down in the contract / scope of work and look forward to having the concrete ceiling.
We are currently building as well, and in the upper floor up to the attic, we only have a wood ceiling with drywall panels.
If I were to build again, I would never choose a wood ceiling—besides the price, it has no advantages.
I have to agree with Nordlys, a concrete ceiling is usually significantly more expensive (but also of higher quality).
If your general contractor can even offer the concrete ceiling at a lower price, I would have the construction method written down in the contract / scope of work and look forward to having the concrete ceiling.
We are currently building as well, and in the upper floor up to the attic, we only have a wood ceiling with drywall panels.
If I were to build again, I would never choose a wood ceiling—besides the price, it has no advantages.
A
Aliban20143 Feb 2019 11:07Concrete ceilings are generally more expensive (material costs > labor costs), while wooden beam ceilings are usually somewhat cheaper (labor costs > material costs). Therefore, I find these statements unusual.
What else comes to mind:
Concrete ceiling:
- As far as I know, no ring beam is necessary, which allows for higher windows if the lintel reinforcement is integrated statically into the ceiling—an advantage.
- Insulation, as far as I know, can only be installed "above" the concrete ceiling, meaning you lose about 20cm (8 inches) of height in the attic and the 20cm (8 inches) concrete ceiling will initially be heated unnecessarily—both rather disadvantages in my opinion.
- No movement toward the walls, so no cracks as with wooden beam ceilings—an advantage.
- Easier planning and installation of recessed lighting since you don’t have to consider the spacing of wooden beams.
Wooden beam ceiling:
- The opposite of the above; a ring beam is required, which lowers the window height if the ring beam is not notched out. If it is notched, this can look odd from the outside, as the window then "slides into the roof." If a soffit is also installed, it will likely look strange. Windows at a similar height to those with concrete ceilings could only be achieved with higher room height and a dropped ceiling, in my opinion—thus rather a disadvantage. If the upper floor windows are to be the same height as the ground floor, the upper floor room height must be considerably higher because the ring beam takes up height.
- Insulation is usually done between the joists (e.g., the floor area divided into 92% insulation and 8% wooden beams, so about 8% heat loss). Still, in my opinion, this is more of an advantage.
- Wood expands and contracts over time, so cracks usually form at the transitions to the walls if plaster is applied inside. This is probably not a problem with wallpaper. A clear disadvantage if using plaster. It might be mitigated by using longitudinal battens + OSB board + drywall instead of just cross battens + drywall as ceiling cladding.
- More complicated planning and installation of recessed lighting since you have to account for the spacing of the wooden beams.
Conclusion:
As often in house construction, the choice of ceiling is, in my opinion, a matter of personal preference.
Wooden beam ceilings require more working time, in my opinion, so contractors probably prefer to finish quickly and not spend too long working on the wooden beam ceiling and therefore offer it "on paper" at a lower price.
What else comes to mind:
Concrete ceiling:
- As far as I know, no ring beam is necessary, which allows for higher windows if the lintel reinforcement is integrated statically into the ceiling—an advantage.
- Insulation, as far as I know, can only be installed "above" the concrete ceiling, meaning you lose about 20cm (8 inches) of height in the attic and the 20cm (8 inches) concrete ceiling will initially be heated unnecessarily—both rather disadvantages in my opinion.
- No movement toward the walls, so no cracks as with wooden beam ceilings—an advantage.
- Easier planning and installation of recessed lighting since you don’t have to consider the spacing of wooden beams.
Wooden beam ceiling:
- The opposite of the above; a ring beam is required, which lowers the window height if the ring beam is not notched out. If it is notched, this can look odd from the outside, as the window then "slides into the roof." If a soffit is also installed, it will likely look strange. Windows at a similar height to those with concrete ceilings could only be achieved with higher room height and a dropped ceiling, in my opinion—thus rather a disadvantage. If the upper floor windows are to be the same height as the ground floor, the upper floor room height must be considerably higher because the ring beam takes up height.
- Insulation is usually done between the joists (e.g., the floor area divided into 92% insulation and 8% wooden beams, so about 8% heat loss). Still, in my opinion, this is more of an advantage.
- Wood expands and contracts over time, so cracks usually form at the transitions to the walls if plaster is applied inside. This is probably not a problem with wallpaper. A clear disadvantage if using plaster. It might be mitigated by using longitudinal battens + OSB board + drywall instead of just cross battens + drywall as ceiling cladding.
- More complicated planning and installation of recessed lighting since you have to account for the spacing of the wooden beams.
Conclusion:
As often in house construction, the choice of ceiling is, in my opinion, a matter of personal preference.
Wooden beam ceilings require more working time, in my opinion, so contractors probably prefer to finish quickly and not spend too long working on the wooden beam ceiling and therefore offer it "on paper" at a lower price.
Thank you very much for the responses; they help us make our decision!
Could you briefly explain why you wouldn’t build with a wooden ceiling again?
Thank you!
dhd82 schrieb:
Hello,
If I were to build again, I would never choose a wooden ceiling; apart from the price, it has no advantages.
Could you briefly explain why you wouldn’t build with a wooden ceiling again?
Thank you!
For a concrete ceiling, you do not need a vapor barrier. Applying one requires very careful work; otherwise, you may encounter moisture problems.
After installing the vapor barrier on our ceiling, I thoroughly checked for leaks and did find some. I now hope I didn’t miss anything.
It is also much easier to attach something to a concrete ceiling than to a ribbed ceiling (not in terms of the physical effort needed, which is of course much higher for concrete, but in the technical execution).
Living in a house with a concrete ceiling between the upper floor and the attic is generally no different than with a wooden ceiling (unless you convert the attic, in which case sound insulation becomes an additional factor). However, with a concrete ceiling, you have a structure that is less prone to faults and offers more flexibility when attaching items to the ceiling.
After installing the vapor barrier on our ceiling, I thoroughly checked for leaks and did find some. I now hope I didn’t miss anything.
It is also much easier to attach something to a concrete ceiling than to a ribbed ceiling (not in terms of the physical effort needed, which is of course much higher for concrete, but in the technical execution).
Living in a house with a concrete ceiling between the upper floor and the attic is generally no different than with a wooden ceiling (unless you convert the attic, in which case sound insulation becomes an additional factor). However, with a concrete ceiling, you have a structure that is less prone to faults and offers more flexibility when attaching items to the ceiling.
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