ᐅ Architect’s Responsibilities Regarding KfW Funding Interest and Additional Matters
Created on: 13 Jul 2018 11:44
R
Ruhrgebiet23
Hello everyone,
We purchased a house in February this year. It’s a semi-detached house from the 1950s, generally in good, old condition. It quickly became clear to us that we wanted and were able to invest a significant amount of money (up to around 300,000,000 Euros) to have everything done “properly.” We found an architect through a distant acquaintance who accompanied us for the inspection in December.
The purchase was completed in February, and we hoped for a quick submission of the building permit / planning permission application — we intended to renovate everything (new heating system, pipes, insulation, windows, etc.) and extend the back. We already had a draft design, which was roughly adopted and, of course, detailed further. The architect informed us at the second meeting that he had a new employee who would be responsible for our project. We were a bit surprised but accepted it. Some mistakes have been made by him (e.g., compass directions on the building permit incorrectly shown — my husband noticed this before submission; errors concerning the development boundaries, which, however, were never acknowledged), but that is not the main point here.
The original architect quickly made it clear that he was rather skeptical about insulation. As a result, we also assumed that achieving low-energy house standards or similar would not be possible. However, we stated early on that we were very interested in a photovoltaic system for hot water.
The building permit / planning permission was submitted three months ago, and since then we have been waiting — no one is responsible for the delay (at least not the architect). Meanwhile, we have been constantly trying to discuss KfW (government) funding programs with the architects. Both say that adapting the house to be age-appropriate is easier to implement than energy-efficient renovation. Because we persistently asked, they have now admitted that funding measures for energy-efficient renovation are also possible. Regarding further information, they consistently refer us to a financial advisor, who can only tell us that loan terms there are generally better than at our regular bank. We have now brought in an energy consultant to assess what really makes sense for our property. She believes that insulation according to the Energy Saving Ordinance is quite reasonable and not much more expensive. She met with the architects earlier this week.
We have already asked the architects several times to prepare a detailed cost breakdown — so far, we only have a rough estimate from 02/2018. But in order to decide what kind of funding might be suitable FOR US, we need comparable figures. Is that really too much to ask? What can we reasonably expect from the architect? He is contracted for all phases of the project.
We feel that the architects simply want to keep the planning effort as low as possible. We have to raise many issues multiple times before they are considered. For example, we asked for a drywall partition wall to the neighbor to be planned. At the last meeting, we were asked to finalize the kitchen plan as soon as possible. When we finally got the dimensions, we asked again if the drywall partition had been included. It had not. This has been repeated with many things so far, where we as laypeople have to remind them constantly. We certainly will not be able to think of everything... The new architect independently handles the exterior design of the entrance area — when we point out efflorescence in the basement, he replies that he can look into it during construction. We are laypeople, but their priorities don’t seem very logical to us...
Maybe I’m mistaken, so I would appreciate your assessments.
Best regards!
We purchased a house in February this year. It’s a semi-detached house from the 1950s, generally in good, old condition. It quickly became clear to us that we wanted and were able to invest a significant amount of money (up to around 300,000,000 Euros) to have everything done “properly.” We found an architect through a distant acquaintance who accompanied us for the inspection in December.
The purchase was completed in February, and we hoped for a quick submission of the building permit / planning permission application — we intended to renovate everything (new heating system, pipes, insulation, windows, etc.) and extend the back. We already had a draft design, which was roughly adopted and, of course, detailed further. The architect informed us at the second meeting that he had a new employee who would be responsible for our project. We were a bit surprised but accepted it. Some mistakes have been made by him (e.g., compass directions on the building permit incorrectly shown — my husband noticed this before submission; errors concerning the development boundaries, which, however, were never acknowledged), but that is not the main point here.
The original architect quickly made it clear that he was rather skeptical about insulation. As a result, we also assumed that achieving low-energy house standards or similar would not be possible. However, we stated early on that we were very interested in a photovoltaic system for hot water.
The building permit / planning permission was submitted three months ago, and since then we have been waiting — no one is responsible for the delay (at least not the architect). Meanwhile, we have been constantly trying to discuss KfW (government) funding programs with the architects. Both say that adapting the house to be age-appropriate is easier to implement than energy-efficient renovation. Because we persistently asked, they have now admitted that funding measures for energy-efficient renovation are also possible. Regarding further information, they consistently refer us to a financial advisor, who can only tell us that loan terms there are generally better than at our regular bank. We have now brought in an energy consultant to assess what really makes sense for our property. She believes that insulation according to the Energy Saving Ordinance is quite reasonable and not much more expensive. She met with the architects earlier this week.
We have already asked the architects several times to prepare a detailed cost breakdown — so far, we only have a rough estimate from 02/2018. But in order to decide what kind of funding might be suitable FOR US, we need comparable figures. Is that really too much to ask? What can we reasonably expect from the architect? He is contracted for all phases of the project.
We feel that the architects simply want to keep the planning effort as low as possible. We have to raise many issues multiple times before they are considered. For example, we asked for a drywall partition wall to the neighbor to be planned. At the last meeting, we were asked to finalize the kitchen plan as soon as possible. When we finally got the dimensions, we asked again if the drywall partition had been included. It had not. This has been repeated with many things so far, where we as laypeople have to remind them constantly. We certainly will not be able to think of everything... The new architect independently handles the exterior design of the entrance area — when we point out efflorescence in the basement, he replies that he can look into it during construction. We are laypeople, but their priorities don’t seem very logical to us...
Maybe I’m mistaken, so I would appreciate your assessments.
Best regards!
R
Ruhrgebiet2326 Jan 2019 20:43My husband created the floor plan drawings himself, and apart from swapping the children’s and master bedrooms, these were ultimately submitted as the concept. Of course, I understand that transferring this into the software still involves a lot of work—I don’t want to downplay that. But the architect said that we had already saved him quite a bit of mental effort with this.
We also obtained quotes using the bill of quantities and created summaries (just recently for the first time, it seems, the total of the quotes was calculated—something the young architect hadn’t thought of until now).
I understand that architectural services cover much more, but I don’t quite see why this should justify lower quality work. At some point, there should have been a clear indication that our ideas were simply not feasible within our investment budget or that he couldn’t take on that much work for the money. But that was never mentioned... Nor was there ever any word about us receiving any kind of bonus or anything like that.
We also obtained quotes using the bill of quantities and created summaries (just recently for the first time, it seems, the total of the quotes was calculated—something the young architect hadn’t thought of until now).
I understand that architectural services cover much more, but I don’t quite see why this should justify lower quality work. At some point, there should have been a clear indication that our ideas were simply not feasible within our investment budget or that he couldn’t take on that much work for the money. But that was never mentioned... Nor was there ever any word about us receiving any kind of bonus or anything like that.
R
Ruhrgebiet2326 Jan 2019 20:45Zaba12 schrieb:
Well, maybe he wanted to do you a favor. Our architect clearly stated that for the price we paid, we can’t expect all the services according to HOAI. So, only within the respective service phase.
That was fine with us.That is then a completely different kind of transparency.
Ruhrgebiet23 schrieb:
That is a completely different way of creating transparency. That is just one possible explanation. It could also be due to inexperience. Maybe the previous architect was unmotivated or not up to date with current technology. Who knows! Communication is everything. Unfortunately, you can’t rely on people if you already have a bad gut feeling.
If something on the construction site doesn’t meet my expectations or I don’t recognize what I expect, I make a call to the trade contractor. The architect is not included in my communication chain. And I do it immediately. Either I’m mistaken (which happens often) or I’m right and the issue can be corrected.
Ruhrgebiet23 schrieb:
But what is this about exactly? If the fee is too low, should you expect that you won't receive proper support?Not necessarily, but based on that, it’s difficult to demand the full range of services according to HOAI. If necessary, he might simply refer you to the “lower” fee and claim that THIS particular service is not fully included.
I would advise you to have another conversation about this and put a few important points in writing. In this regard, consult the “basic services of the service phases.”
I don’t mind the idea of compiling the bill of quantities from the offers, for example. If he hadn’t mentioned it, it probably would never have come up (maybe 70% of all architects actually work like this?!). However, I would definitely insist on an accurate cost ESTIMATE.
R
Ruhrgebiet2326 Jan 2019 21:02Zaba, I think I come across here as somewhat more naive and shy than we really are. We actually question everything all the time, and we did the same with the architect. But when the senior architect is hard to reach by phone and emails go unanswered for several days, and we are told everything is already fine and set, it’s not that easy. We have now also written very clearly that we see an urgent need for clarification. But for newcomers like us, it’s hard to judge whether our request for all information on changes (for example, this massive increase in costs due to excavation) is justified, so that WE can still make decisions. For instance, the younger architect mentioned to us casually on Wednesday that he had told the structural contractor to start preparing the terrace area. After the hefty bill, we immediately objected to that—he should definitely not do anything before the costs are clarified. But when the younger architect says it would be better if the contractor did it right away, it’s hard to argue against that at first. At least we asked about the additional costs, which he couldn’t specify.
In any case, I want to thank everyone already for their effort in writing!!! Even if you don’t see everything the same way, these are valuable suggestions.
May I ask again directly: What specific points should be clarified now with the senior and the younger architect?
What we see:
1. Much clearer flow of information: We want to make decisions and be informed about (estimated) additional costs for that.
2. Keeping an eye on prices. The younger architect hasn’t really considered these so far; he didn’t really know the cost estimate from the senior architect on Wednesday either. He simply said that the senior architect had used standard values. He had no overview of any deviations.
3. Adherence to agreements: The younger architect has told us several times that he wants to follow up with companies by phone, and each time he says or writes that he still has to do that. But how are we supposed to assign orders like this?
In any case, I want to thank everyone already for their effort in writing!!! Even if you don’t see everything the same way, these are valuable suggestions.
May I ask again directly: What specific points should be clarified now with the senior and the younger architect?
What we see:
1. Much clearer flow of information: We want to make decisions and be informed about (estimated) additional costs for that.
2. Keeping an eye on prices. The younger architect hasn’t really considered these so far; he didn’t really know the cost estimate from the senior architect on Wednesday either. He simply said that the senior architect had used standard values. He had no overview of any deviations.
3. Adherence to agreements: The younger architect has told us several times that he wants to follow up with companies by phone, and each time he says or writes that he still has to do that. But how are we supposed to assign orders like this?
R
Ruhrgebiet2326 Jan 2019 21:04Dr Hix schrieb:
Not necessarily, but you can’t really demand the full range of services according to HOAI either. If in doubt, he will simply refer you to the “cheaper” fee and claim that THIS particular service is not (fully) included.
I would recommend having another conversation with him to clarify a few things that are important to you. In this context, take a look at the “basic services of the phases of performance.”
I wouldn’t mind compiling the specifications from the offers, for example. If he hadn’t told you, you might never have noticed (maybe 70% of architects actually work like this?! ).
However, I would definitely insist on an accurate cost CALCULATION.Thank you, that helps me a lot!
Insights like these are really valuable for us. It shows where we might be “slipping up” and what we urgently need to clarify.
We don’t want to act AGAINST the architect, but rather WORK WITH HIM to complete our project properly.
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